Thread: MASS EFFECT 3 PLAYTHROUGH WITH SPOILERS!

  1. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilance View Post
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    Ok- so there will be problems in the future, is that what you're saying? I know this will disappoint some, but Shepard probably did not solve every problem and bring about a conflict free galaxy.
    I didn't want a conflict-free galaxy, but I would like to see what my choices will actually do.

    But Bagpuss is wrong in one thing - If the reapers are dead, so are the Geth. At least that's the starchilds claim, which IMO is an inane decision by Bioware (unless it's an inane and untrue claim by the starchild). And the starchild's claim that synthetics and biologicals will invariable fight and this will lead to the destruction of the biologicals inevitably is stupid. It can believe what it wants, but my Shepard should be able to express is disagreement. That's one of the things that makes the ending so weak, that we just have to take what the star child claims for granted and can't really interact with it.

    One of the neat consequences of the Geth/Quarian peace I'd like to see would be the Geth/Quarian to start becoming more powerful and conquering the world. After all, they probably have one of the largest fleets already, and now they can turn all their civilian ships into full war ships. And they have the Geth as well! There are bound to be some warmongers among them (there are some among them, after all, which started the latest crisis between Geth and Quarian!)

    In that regard, I actually wanted to see more closure and more details - I wanted these choices I took to play out in some way. I wanted to see where I doomed the universes, or at least created new conflict potential with the best intentions. That would have made the game deeper and more satisfying for me than any indoctrination interpretation or a 3-button ending.

    The color-coded 3 button ending has the big flaw that it diminishes the weight of all my other choices, while I hoped for all these choices to be very relevant for the future. But the destruction of Mass Relays and an effect like Synthesis overshadows everything - but as a player, that was just one single button I pressed. It isn't really the sum of all my actions that manifest in these 3 buttons.

    The starchild says that building the Crucible, which no civilization in millions of years had managed to do, has rendered his former solution obsolete, and gives Shepard the choice of where to go from there.
    But the problem is - it doesn't matter whether I shot Moridin or let him sacrifice himself, whether I united Geth and Quarian or doomed the Quarian, whether I send the Krogan to help the Turians or not, every Shepard will create one Crucibile and it will have one of only 3 possible effects. All my emotional investment is in the previous things, not in this mysterious Crucible that is built entirely in the background and that gives me 3 options. And while solving the Geth Quarian conflict seems like one of the biggest achievement attainable, it feels shallow against changing all lifeforms in the galaxy into half-synthetics.
    Last edited by Mustrum_Ridcully; April 5th, 2012 at 08:29 PM.

 

  • #497
    I want watermelon! Bagpuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully View Post
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    I didn't want a conflict-free galaxy, but I would like to see what my choices will actually do.

    But Bagpuss is wrong in one thing - If the reapers are dead, so are the Geth. At least that's the starchilds claim, which IMO is an inane decision by Bioware (unless it's an inane and untrue claim by the starchild).
    Sorry you are right I didn't mean Geth. If the Reapers are dead then according to the star child all organic life is doomed. As while you do kill all synthetic life at some point in the future it will be recreated and then destroy all organic life as the Reapers aren't around to clean up the mess.

    Anyway you put the main point much better than I did.

    The ending sucks, IT makes it barely palatable depending on how much is real. The whole concept of the Crucible is a flaw in the ME3 story I feel, the star child just made it worse. It's like the worst parts of the Matrix delivered in a more hamfisted fashion.
    Last edited by Bagpuss; April 5th, 2012 at 09:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Oliver View Post
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    Damn you and your perfectly valid criticism!

  • #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Bagpuss View Post
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    The ending sucks, IT makes it barely palatable depending on how much is real. The whole concept of the Crucible is a flaw in the ME3 story I feel, the star child just made it worse. It's like the worst parts of the Matrix delivered in a more hamfisted fashion.
    Yes, ultimately, the Crucible bothered me from the moment it was established - even way before the ending.

    I really didn't want some magical super weapon. I wanted that all the allies I'd gather would be enough to drive the Reapers back.

    It didn't even far stretched - the Prothean were just one race - they dominated all others and "strength in cooperation rather than domination" would be neat. (And even if domination - say, as the Renegade Path - is the way, then my Shepard did it better than the Protheans did).

    I mean, sure, there is an aspect in it - but I didn't want to be the first one to build some magical device - I wanted the first one to build an alliance strong enough to beat the Reapers. Even if it would never be a complete victory - e.g. the Reapers retreat to gather new strength and for a comeback later (not another cycle - in 10, 50 or 100 years or maybe 500 years).

    Building an artifact is just not as cool as building an army.

  • #499
    can't be bothered Eldorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully View Post
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    Building an artifact is just not as cool as building an army.
    I built both.

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    I want watermelon! Bagpuss's Avatar
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    I think the point is there wasn't much point in building an army, all it did was (illogically) give you another button to press.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Oliver View Post
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    Damn you and your perfectly valid criticism!

  • #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turianus View Post
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    Aside from the point that a rust layer is no chemical separator (and potassium is an element where it doesn't work, either), the existence of free potassium or chlorine is both pretty much impossible as long as there is any other element in the environment (with very few exceptions). Both existing at the same time would result in an explosion that makes "violent chemical reaction" sound like a euphemism. Some mechanism that keeps them separate is not really viable in the time frame of the life of a planet.

    Anyway, I don't want to start a deep chemical discussion here, given that we talk about a game. I just found the inanities the random planet generator spewed out too much to gulp to read all of that shit. Some of the back stories weren't too bad, though.
    It doesn't work if you play straightman to my straightman.

  • #502
    can't be bothered Eldorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagpuss View Post
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    I think the point is there wasn't much point in building an army, all it did was (illogically) give you another button to press.

    You're thinking with a perspective from outside the game. In game, Sherpard's peacemaking and army building enabled him to hold off the Reapers long enough to gain access to the Citadel, and his recruiting of scientists and engineers for the Crucible are what made it work, and got it finished before Earth was overrun. Even enhancing Citadel security helped him avoid Cerebus troops, and he only had to contend with TIM when he was severely injured.

    Did you really expect that an insufficient force would cause a game over where the Reapers win? In game, Shepard knew he needed as many war assets as possible to have a chance of defeating the Reapers. From his perspective, his work was successful, and only barely.

    That, from outside the game's perspective, war assets only give you a different button to push, is irrelevant to the narrative. (and not even true. Low enough resources cause the Earth to be destroyed by reaper forces before the Crucible works.)
    Last edited by Eldorian; April 6th, 2012 at 12:22 AM.

  • #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC, earlier in the thread
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    My bottom line response to both TB & DJ is this: The only way Bioware issues a true apology to fans about the ending to this game is if this DLC is free. That would be a real admission of fault and they are doing something to make up for it. I believe it is HIGHLY improbable that happens. Anyone who wants this "fix" is likely going to have to fork over at least a few bucks to get the closure they want so badly.

    I can see it now: the backlash of the DLC not being free. As if these people shouldn't be paid for their hard work.
    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

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  • #504
    jowly Tabloid Believer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully View Post
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    Yes, ultimately, the Crucible bothered me from the moment it was established - even way before the ending.

    I really didn't want some magical super weapon. I wanted that all the allies I'd gather would be enough to drive the Reapers back.
    The Crucible didn't bother me in the least. I suppose I didn't mind a magical "I win" button because the Reapers themselves are a magical enemy. They are unstoppable. They are unbeatable. It takes an entire Quarian fleet to kill just one of them. I actually loved that aspect about the Reapers, because it made the fight feel so desperate.

    When you have an enemy like that, you almost have to have a magical win button. Hell, it happened in Starcraft, a game which is all about the warfare and the battles.

    I agree that in the game you build and army and an artifact. Do I wish that they meant something more? Absolutely. But that is not what we got, unfortunately.

    What I would have loved to have seen, with the Galactic Readiness Score, is it to have functioned like your ship's upgrades in Mass Effect 2. Basically, if you don't have it at 100%, some to all of your companions die along the way. That would have made it feel like you accomplished something. Hell, they could have even made it really hard to get to a 100%.
    "You think Osama is regretting giving his personal information on the Playstation Network?" - Remathilis

  • #505
    Cupcake at heart nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabloid Believer View Post
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    When you have an enemy like that, you almost have to have a magical win button. Hell, it happened in Starcraft, a game which is all about the warfare and the battles.
    Did it? I don't remember that from Starcraft. Maybe SC2 which I never bothered with?

  • #506
    can't be bothered Eldorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabloid Believer View Post
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    What I would have loved to have seen, with the Galactic Readiness Score, is it to have functioned like your ship's upgrades in Mass Effect 2. Basically, if you don't have it at 100%, some to all of your companions die along the way. That would have made it feel like you accomplished something. Hell, they could have even made it really hard to get to a 100%.
    Something similiar happens with the Earth. Lower readiness scores cause the Earth to be destroyed, higher scores save it. I suppose when they lengthen the ending they can show that higher scores save more of the galaxy, for example Palavan and Thessia.

  • #507
    awesum sauce, side of kickass Dark Jezter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nail bunny View Post
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    Did it? I don't remember that from Starcraft. Maybe SC2 which I never bothered with?
    Maybe he means Tassadar sacrificing himself to destroy the Zerg Overmind?
    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

    -Robert E. Howard, The Tower of the Elephant

  • #508
    on a pogo stick! JC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabloid Believer View Post
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    Well, so much for it not being free. I'm pretty surprised at this. You?
    When something has never happened before I think that's absolutely the time for genuine surprise. Which I am. Anyone who thought this was going to be free was either clueless, dreaming or lying to themselves. However, it does set up a very dangerous precedent.

    It will also, very likely, steer writers and devs away from taking risks with their games, especially conclusions. The argument against what I said: the lesson really is to not make crappy endings. This ignores all the crummy endings to franchises over the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by nail bunny View Post
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    Oh htere will be more, much, much, much more as the entitled whinge bags feel their wittle bitty feelings are hurt by this "betrayal".
    Careful, you'll upset Vigilance!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Jezter View Post
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    The part you left out is where they aren't changing the ending which was a healthy chunk of my point.

    And I stand by everything I said there. It does mean they are apologizing and people should feel, whether they like what Bioware adds or not, very lucky and honored that a company would do such a thing for so many that were unhappy with the ending without charging for it.

    And considering this kind of thing hasn't every happened before (free DLC for additions to an ending) nor was it really expected by anyone there was no reason to believe otherwise. In the end, I was wrong about the assumption that the additions would be free.

    Now we get to have more gnashing and wailing of how it didn't fix anything after it comes out. Ignoring that Bioware has never stated what they are putting out is a change of any sort. Perhaps there won't be but it's doubtful considering the amount of overreaction so far.

  • #509
    Cupcake at heart nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Jezter View Post
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    Maybe he means Tassadar sacrificing himself to destroy the Zerg Overmind?
    Hmmm. Maybe. Not sure I'd call that a "magic 'I win' button".

  • #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC View Post
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    The part you left out is where they aren't changing the ending which was a healthy chunk of my point.
    By definition, when you add to something you are changing it.

    Still, I wouldn't have minded an ending where, to take a page from Duke Nukem, I get to rip off the Starchild's head and shit down his neck.

    And I stand by everything I said there. It does mean they are apologizing and people should feel, whether they like what Bioware adds or not, very lucky and honored that a company would do such a thing for so many that were unhappy with the ending without charging for it.
    I agree. This is a classy move on EA/Bioware's part. Bioware obviously knows that their repuation has been hurt due to the complaints over DA2, SWTOR, and ME3 and it looks like they are really making an effort to repair relations with their fans.

    And EA is probably trying to improve its public image after the Consumerist ranked it the worst company in America yesterday.
    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

    -Robert E. Howard, The Tower of the Elephant

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