1. #211
    Publicity Stunt Vurt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Province
    Just south of Detroit
    Oratio
    737

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Bagpuss View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    That and the huge number of inconsistencies, like Anderson jumping ahead of you in the Citadel and the Illusive Man appearing from nowhere. All the time you are in the Citadel their are black tendrils at the side of the screen which have previously been linked with indoctrination.
    My guess is that the Illusive Man infiltrated the Citadel at the time it was attacked and set up somewhere. As for the black tendrils, well he does make you shoot Anderson, no? So possibly his indoctrination tech, not the reapers'.

    Why is the Starchild the form of a boy you saw on Earth then repeatedly in your dreams?
    Because it can read memories like a Prothean and saw the boy meant something abstractly important to Shepard?

    Also, Starchild (and God-child) as names imply infallibility, which I just don't buy. I think it's powerful, but not omnipotent, so from now on I'm going to start referring to it as POTR.

 

  • #212
    I want watermelon! Bagpuss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Province
    Liverpool, UK
    Oratio
    8,220

    Ignore User
    One thing I found interesting was the child at the end says.

    "Tell me another story about the Shepard."

    Implying that Shepard is a title not just a name, or that it is a thing not a person.

    You don't say "Tell me another story about the Churchill." or other character from history. There is something really odd about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Oliver View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Damn you and your perfectly valid criticism!

  • #213
    I want watermelon! Bagpuss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Province
    Liverpool, UK
    Oratio
    8,220

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Vurt View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Because it can read memories like a Prothean and saw the boy meant something abstractly important to Shepard?
    The video I linked picks up on it a bit more but you don't see anyone else interact with the child they don't even seem to see or hear him. As if he's a figment of Shepard's imagination/indoctrination.

    It's a pretty strong theory to explain all the inconsistencies. Although there is another one that works equally well, bad writing, and/or a rush to finish it.

    The thing I like about the Indoctrination theory, is that indoctrination is a key theme, and it works as a way to represent indoctrination in a game without say taking full control away from the players. Also synthesis and control are two methods that characters we previously know to be indoctrinated accepted, Saren and TIM. Accepting those the player effectively is tricked into giving into indoctrination, and your soul is destroyed, game over. Destroying the Reapers you continue to fight indoctrination hence you wake up in the rubble on Earth (which you never really left).
    Last edited by Bagpuss; March 26th, 2012 at 02:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Oliver View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Damn you and your perfectly valid criticism!

  • #214
    let them eat arugula! Vigilance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Province
    Tampa, Florida
    Oratio
    3,016

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabloid Believer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    See, I saw synthesis as better than "going down fighting" because I got the impression that going down fighting would have basically meant everyone dying and being turned into husks. I saw synthesis as at least better than that. And you know that humanity survives because of the scene after the credits. In my mind, humanity surviving and starting over (albeit with galactic civilization in ruins) is better than the husks option.
    This is the crux of the whole problem to me though.

    After three games, your best option shouldn't be "well, it's better than being a husk I guess".

    I'd have liked the chance, if I made enough smart choices throghout the games, to WIN.

  • #215
    Love and Hate leopold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Province
    Mason Dixie Line
    Oratio
    1,666

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Bagpuss View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    You don't say "Tell me another story about the Churchill." or other character from history. There is something really odd about that.
    Why wouldn't you? My XBLA tag is Churchill92 I'll tell you a bedtime story
    Professional Scotch Drinker.

  • #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Bagpuss View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    The video I linked picks up on it a bit more but you don't see anyone else interact with the child they don't even seem to see or hear him. As if he's a figment of Shepard's imagination/indoctrination.

    It's a pretty strong theory to explain all the inconsistencies. Although there is another one that works equally well, bad writing, and/or a rush to finish it.

    The thing I like about the Indoctrination theory, is that indoctrination is a key theme, and it works as a way to represent indoctrination in a game without say taking full control away from the players. Also synthesis and control are two methods that characters we previously know to be indoctrinated accepted, Saren and TIM. Accepting those the player effectively is tricked into giving into indoctrination, and your soul is destroyed, game over. Destroying the Reapers you continue to fight indoctrination hence you wake up in the rubble on Earth (which you never really left).
    If we accept that everything that we saw at the ending is part of the indoctrination (including the Normandy Crash), then this really makes the most sense.

    Of course,the nagging doubt of Bioware just writing shit still remains...

    Mustrum "Was indoctrinated, sorry for ruining our galaxy" Ridcully

  • #217
    I want watermelon! Bagpuss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Province
    Liverpool, UK
    Oratio
    8,220

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabloid Believer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    See, I saw synthesis as better than "going down fighting" because I got the impression that going down fighting would have basically meant everyone dying and being turned into husks. I saw synthesis as at least better than that.
    So did Saren in ME1, and he was indoctrinated.

    And you know that humanity survives because of the scene after the credits. In my mind, humanity surviving and starting over (albeit with galactic civilization in ruins) is better than the husks option.
    But you get that scene no matter which option you select.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Oliver View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Damn you and your perfectly valid criticism!

  • #218
    let them eat arugula! Vigilance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Province
    Tampa, Florida
    Oratio
    3,016

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Bagpuss View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    One thing I found interesting was the child at the end says.

    "Tell me another story about the Shepard."

    Implying that Shepard is a title not just a name, or that it is a thing not a person.

    You don't say "Tell me another story about the Churchill." or other character from history. There is something really odd about that.
    I interpreted that more as Shephard has become KNOWN as "the shepherd" because he helped usher humanity into a new age.

    Like how Jesus has become associated with a fisherman or carpenter in metaphorical terms.

  • #219
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Province
    The Paddock
    Oratio
    22,299

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Bagpuss View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    One thing I found interesting was the child at the end says.

    "Tell me another story about the Shepard."

    Implying that Shepard is a title not just a name, or that it is a thing not a person.

    You don't say "Tell me another story about the Churchill." or other character from history. There is something really odd about that.
    Shepard => shepherd, protector of the flock, savior of all sentient races, elevated to myth, legend, and religious observance. Shepard has become a near mythical figure in his/her own time, with people feeling better just because he's nearby. It's of little surprise that after stopping the Reapers (which happens no matter which end you choose, and it probably cheered by every living being in the galaxy at the time and after, even if we bitcha bout it) that Shepard would be elevated into THE Shepard.

  • #220
    I want watermelon! Bagpuss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Province
    Liverpool, UK
    Oratio
    8,220

    Ignore User
    If Bioware has any sense they will do what good Call of Cthulhu GMs do and take the best player theory they come up with given the clues presented and run with that.

    I could imagine the "One more Shepard story" the old man has to tell would be Shepard getting up in the rubble of London and actually riding the beam with allies and fighting a battle to win control of the Citadel. What he sees there is nothing like the Citadel he saw in the dream at the end of ME3. You fight your way to the control room but then the actual end is based on if you gave into the indoctrination at the end of ME3, at which point you use the weapon to either save or doom the galaxy.

    If you picked control the Reapers you try and fail becoming a Reaper, if you pick sythesis then you willingly welcome humanities new Reaper form, and if you chose Destroy them, the battle rages on, with the result depending on your War Assets.
    Last edited by Bagpuss; March 26th, 2012 at 06:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Oliver View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Damn you and your perfectly valid criticism!

  • #221
    on a pogo stick! JC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Province
    The palace of WTF!
    Oratio
    33,806

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Shepard => shepherd, protector of the flock, savior of all sentient races, elevated to myth, legend, and religious observance. Shepard has become a near mythical figure in his/her own time, with people feeling better just because he's nearby. It's of little surprise that after stopping the Reapers (which happens no matter which end you choose, and it probably cheered by every living being in the galaxy at the time and after, even if we bitcha bout it) that Shepard would be elevated into THE Shepard.
    This was my take. The name Shepard was going that way through the entire series.

  • #222
    I want watermelon! Bagpuss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Province
    Liverpool, UK
    Oratio
    8,220

    Ignore User
    Wow the Mass Effect: The Final Hours iPad App is well worth the 1.99 purchase price, if you are remotely interested in game design.

    They even have the flow chart for Mass Effect 3's plot. So full of spoilers.

    Including the designers notes on the ending, which they have by the looks of things deliberately kept vague in order to induce the result of "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYBODY" fuckers!
    Last edited by Bagpuss; March 27th, 2012 at 03:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Oliver View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Damn you and your perfectly valid criticism!

  • #223
    awesum sauce, side of kickass Dark Jezter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Province
    The Rockies.
    Oratio
    10,778

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Bagpuss View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Including the designers notes on the ending, which they have by the looks of things deliberately kept vague in order to induce the result of "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYBODY" fuckers!
    Well, if it's any consolation that philosophy backfired on them big time. Right now ME3 has an average user rating of 2 out of 5 stars on Amazon (Amazon has even started accepting returns of opened copies of ME3 for full refunds) and on Metacritic the average user score is only 4.9 out of 10, and it's all because of the way the game ends. The backlash against the ending has gotten so fierce that it's actually scaring away potential players from the franchise; one real-life friend said to me "I was planning on playing the ME trilogy, but after hearing so many angry reactions about how the ending I'm having second thoughts."

    Is it any wonder why Bioware is agreeing to make new ending DLC? They want to avoid the ME games being remembered as "An awesome game trilogy that disappointed its fans with a horrible ending."
    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

    -Robert E. Howard, The Tower of the Elephant

  • #224
    Cupcake at heart nail bunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Province
    100 Hurricane Swamp
    Oratio
    18,972

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Jezter View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Is it any wonder why Bioware is agreeing to make new ending DLC? They want to avoid the ME games being remembered as "An awesome game trilogy that disappointed its fans with a horrible ending."
    Too late.

    It already has an ending, just like Fallout 3 where you have kill yourself instead of having one of your "immune to radiation" companions solve it for you, or you know, using a rad suit or taking rad-ex, or any number of actual intelligent things you could do with the supplies you have on hand right there at that moment.

  • #225
    I want watermelon! Bagpuss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Province
    Liverpool, UK
    Oratio
    8,220

    Ignore User
    If it was the indoctrination, but they just explained it better after you made your choice then I think it could have been a great ending.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Oliver View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Damn you and your perfectly valid criticism!

  • Tags for this Thread

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •