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  1. #61
    Polly, Demon Lord Voadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMage View Post
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    Ah, but remember, when 4E was announced, some 3.5 books were literally selling for 1 cent each. After 4E came out, many people wanted to go back to 3E, hence the price went way up.
    I bought my brother 6 Eberron hardcovers for $0.01 each off amazon (plus $3.99 Shipping).

    Monster Manual III, IV, and V plus Lords of Madness were the same price at the time.

    I'm going to watch and bide my time for a great price on the 4e Demonomicon. Maybe Monsters of Nentir Vale as well.

 

  • #62
    Stealth epicurean! skade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voadam View Post
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    I bought my brother 6 Eberron hardcovers for $0.01 each off amazon (plus $3.99 Shipping).

    Monster Manual III, IV, and V plus Lords of Madness were the same price at the time.

    I'm going to watch and bide my time for a great price on the 4e Demonomicon. Maybe Monsters of Nentir Vale as well.
    let me know if you do! I love fire sales!


  • #63
    Unless they make a basic game with optional layers of complexity, there's no way they will unify all (or even most) of D&D's shattered fan base.

  • #64
    Quote Originally Posted by scutisorex shrewlord View Post
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    Unless they make a basic game with optional layers of complexity, there's no way they will unify all (or even most) of D&D's shattered fan base.
    They would do well to simply avoid using language that is specifically alienating certain market segments. That was part of the marketing problem the last time around.
    "It seems to contain detailed plans for every possible way to build every possible device to destroy every possible thing in all creation."

  • #65
    What direction should they take?
    Hard to say. For all it's flaws, 3e/Pathfinder is about the best version of D&D I've played. The direction I'd go in would be to something even more modernized, which would probably be too far away from 'what is D&D' to really appeal to most 3e/4e fans.

    I'd do something truly expandable: a light and fast basic game not much bigger than Savage Worlds Explorer Edition, marketed for about $8-$10.00 that gives you the class info, and ways to customize said classes. No more 'buy three 200-page books that cost $150 to begin play'.

    4E tripled, sometimes quad- and quin-tupled the ever-expanding crunch gravy-train, but is that really a sustainable model going forward? Do people REALLY want an entire two book shelves of books, each edition? Sure, there's a segment of the market that totally will do that, every single edition. I personally know people that have done that. But is it a large enough segment to really base a business on?

    One major thing that they could do: go back to a truly open-source D&D license. I think if they had done this for 4E and had a slew of 3PP with product ready to go on 4E's launch date, we wouldn't be having a 5E this soon.

    Will you participate in proving them with feedback?
    Probably

    Would you participate in an open playtest (assuming it was free or cheap in your opinion)?
    I think both groups I normally play D&D with would do this: one plays Pathfinder, the other 4E.

    Do you think WOTC can unify the fanbase?
    I don't think so at this time. Things have gone as they are for far too long. I know a significant number of people who did not move on to 4E, and who went with Pathfinder.

    Do you think they can challenge Paizo for those 3e fans?
    Not really unless 5E is really '3.80'; ie, it uses most of the same concepts and such from 3.5, but give it a significant update/twist.

    Do you think they can bring into the fold the 0e, 1e, and 2e fans, and retroclone fans?
    Not really, nor do I think they should try. Most of these people want something so different from what most modern gamers want that it's hopeless to try and cater to them in a version of D&D. I DO think WOTC should make pretty much their entire range of possible PDFs available again to those players. They're not going to convert if they haven't done so by now, and you're never going to get cash from them otherwise. Y'all already have most of that stuff scanned in, so it's basically found money on WOTC's part.

    Can they create new players with a new edition that is trying to cater to old players?
    By 'old', if they mean 3E people, then maybe. If by that they mean editions previous to that, then no.

  • #66
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scutisorex shrewlord View Post
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    Unless they make a basic game with optional layers of complexity, there's no way they will unify all (or even most) of D&D's shattered fan base.
    Well that appears to be the plan, as it's in the announcement.
    I like hats.

  • #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
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    Well that appears to be the plan, as it's in the announcement.
    I see that.

  • #68
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WayneLigon View Post
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    Can they create new players with a new edition that is trying to cater to old players?
    By 'old', if they mean 3E people, then maybe. If by that they mean editions previous to that, then no.
    By "old players" I mean any player of any existing edition of D&D, including 4e.
    I like hats.

  • #69
    toss my salad iykwimaityd COMMUNITY SUPPORTER diaglo's Avatar
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    i have to say i feel my Dream date investments at the ENnies this year really paid off.

    getting to sit with Wil Upchurch as he attempted to grill Monte Cook about his "new" work was awesome.

    it totally clued me into this event. even though, nothing direct was said.

    diaglo "years of D&D has taught me how to read between the lines very well" Ooi
    FWIW, I'm on the design team and I pretty much find WoW as fun and interesting as banging my head against a brick wall.-- Mike Mearls

    I mean, I never GET any but that would be preferable. --Rel

  • #70
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    For some reason this comment stuck out for me:

    "We hope to create a system that allows players to use much of their existing content, regardless of the edition. " - Mike Mearls.
    I like hats.

  • #71
    What a weekend! COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Pompous Magnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Mearls
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    With fourth edition, there was a huge focus on mechanics. The story was still there, but a lot of our customers were having trouble getting to it. In some ways, it was like we told people, ‘The right way to play guitar is to play thrash metal,’ But there’s other ways to play guitar.
    This is a terrible analogy, as thrash metal is obviously the only correct way to play guitar.
    The words "douche" and "bag" have never coupled as passionately as they did in the person of my thirteen-year-old self.
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  • #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Pompous Magnus View Post
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    This is a terrible analogy, as thrash metal is obviously the only correct way to play guitar.
    I like where you're going with this, but then of course there's Comfortably Numb.
    Save time and see it my way.

  • #73
    Cha is my dump stat imperialus's Avatar
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    So at this point at least, I don't really have a dog in this fight. I'm perfectly happy playing my retroclones and I see no reason to switch. That said I wish WoTC every success in the world in this endeavour so I hope you'll put up with me blathering on a bit while I yammer about what D&D would look like in my 'perfect world'

    First off, I think they should take a good hard look at Labyrinth Lord and mine it for some ideas.

    For example in LL you have the core rulebook which is basically a clone of the B/X edition of D&D, race=class, and all that jazz. If you want though you can buy the Advanced Edition Compendium, which expands your options to include the race/class combos from AD&D. You can also buy the Original Edition characters, which lets you play Fighting Men, Magic Users and the other classes from the original LBB's.

    The key thing though is that all of the different 'editions' are cross compatible, even within the same gaming table. In my LL group for example we have a Dwarf, and Elf, a Human Wizard, a Human Illusionist, two thieves and a pair of Human Fighters. We have also at various points had a Druid and a Paladin in the party. We were able to do this because the XP tables all made sense for everyone across the board and the system doesn't break when you add the "advanced" characters to it.

    In my perfect world the next edition would be a game that you buy digitally (or subscribe to DDI for) and it gains you access to the complete ruleset in digital format, it doesn't have to be PDF's necessarily, but some way for the reader to see the different subsystems and be able to compare them to see what suits them best. Then you can enter into a form where you build your game a-la carte with varying levels of complexity as suits your desires. Then you go through and tick off the boxes that you want for 'your' D&D. It totals up the price based on what you chose, gets printed on demand and shipped. This would also let players who have been gaming for years skip the ever-present intro chapter that tells you "Roleplaying games exist in your imagination!" and "We use funny dice!" or other advice type things that they don't necessarily need or want a hard copy of but still make it available to new players who might want it.

    For example say the "Character Creation" chapter runs the gambit from having a very simple retroclone style chargen where there are no "skills" there are no "powers" or "feats". You have your race, your class, hit points, attributes, and a modifier to your attack roll... that's it.

    The next level of complexity allows the player to pick feats and some form of skill system.

    Another level allows the player to pick various combat powers.

    One thing that would make this extremely newbie friendly is that it would be entirely possible for WoTC to come up with 3 or 4 various predefined 'packages' that could be sold in stores. The basic edition would be very simple, and maybe, just maybe allow them to recapture the magic of the redbox where you had a complete game, in a small package that could be sold for a reasonable price. Then you could have the "regular D&D" edition with added complexity, and finally "Advanced D&D" with further complexity.

    A second possibility would be to scale the introduction of complex materials in the "Core Edition". I think that BECMI did this fairly well with the different books adding different rulesets that slowly increased the complexity of the game starting with a character who could easily fit onto an index card, all the way up until players were running around with demi-gods who could alter reality.

  • #74
    holiday cheers! Tarion'sCousin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diaglo View Post
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    diaglo "years of D&D has taught me how to read between the lines very well" Ooi
    So, mang. Spill the secrets about 5E and its effects on the gaming world.

    We could use a good diaglophecy.
    "Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."
    --Oscar Wilde

  • #75
    Damn you, Rusty COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Rel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarion'sCousin View Post
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    So, mang. Spill the secrets about 5E and its effects on the gaming world.

    We could use a good diaglophecy.
    "OD&D 1974 is the only true game. All others are a pale imitation." is the one true diaglophecy. All others are a pale imitation.
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