1. #211
    fear my quack! ColonelHardisson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Province
    Cleveland, OH
    Oratio
    4,748

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Don't forget, however, that the DMG had many many words about it being a humanocentric world....nor overlook that in the PHB you had the various min/max requirements on those very same non-human races.

    Those options existed, but 1e was originally built on the idea that the preponderance of characters should/would be human.

    Good or bad is a personal preference, of course....
    Yeah...I remember ignoring those level limits, as did everyone else I gamed with. That doesn't mean that was universally true among D&D players, to be clear. Plus, we didn't pay a lot of attention to Gygax's pontificating on humanocentric worlds; I mean, we sort of had that without thinking about it. Besides, that stuff was found after reading the books in detail; it wouldn't have been the thing to draw people in. I get the feeling a lot of people only read the "sexy" parts - the classes and races they wanted to play - and largely ignored the fluff.
    "Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

    Here's my blog, in case you're interested.

 

  • #212
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Province
    Dayton
    Oratio
    5,598

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Don't forget, however, that the DMG had many many words about it being a humanocentric world....nor overlook that in the PHB you had the various min/max requirements on those very same non-human races.

    Those options existed, but 1e was originally built on the idea that the preponderance of characters should/would be human.

    Good or bad is a personal preference, of course....
    This was further reinforced by the Greyhawk supplements - the population breakdowns made it pretty clear that humans were firmly in the drivers seat.

  • #213
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Province
    Dayton
    Oratio
    5,598

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    ...Having anything like "flash healing" or worse yet, "mass flash healing" breaks my immersion in RPG game reality and tosses me into a video game.
    Why do you hate mass cure light wounds?

  • #214
    Official Topic Approver COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Strithe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Province
    3rd circle of hell
    Oratio
    1,025

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by jdrakeh View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    The big thing I'd like to see them ditch for 5e is the three book core format. It's a sacred cow that needs to die. In an age of single core book games, D&D needs to catch the fuck up (well, it needs to catch the fuck up again - the Rules Cyclopedia pretty much had this right back in the 1990s).
    They'd have to ditch a lot of complexity, unless you're going to have a fuck-all huge book. Either that or break it up into a "basic, expert, epic" set of books like in the old days for different power levels.

  • #215
    blazin' trails GlassJaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Province
    Austin, TX
    Oratio
    305

    Ignore User
    Has anyone heard whether 5E is going to use the OGL? Seems like that would be a HUGE factor in winning back some fans, or at least the start of mending fences.

    In fact, I'd argue if they didn't, the new edition will be dead in the water from the start.
    TRAILBLAZER Teratologue from Bad Axe Games
    Now available from RPG Now
    !


  • #216
    I want watermelon! Bagpuss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Province
    Liverpool, UK
    Oratio
    8,144

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by mhensley View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    The thing that has to disappear is the 4e bullshit where a cleric hits a monster and heals someone else 20 feet away. The completely gamist stuff has to die.
    Yeah they should move that ability to a Vampire class power it makes much more sense there. What?


    Still I think something 4E did do right with the cleric was allow them to do healing, and something more fun in the same turn. I frequently played a Cleric in earlier editions, and having to give up what you planned because some idiot fighter got himself injured was annoying.
    Last edited by Bagpuss; January 11th, 2012 at 02:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Oliver View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Damn you and your perfectly valid criticism!

  • #217
    Stage Name: Jackie! COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Nerfherder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Province
    Nordschleife, Nürburgring
    Oratio
    22,623

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by GlassJaw View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Has anyone heard whether 5E is going to use the OGL?
    Yes, but they're under NDA, so won't say (I asked in the original thread). The strong hint from some WotC staff is that there will be an OGL.
    Seems like that would be a HUGE factor in winning back some fans, or at least the start of mending fences.
    Agreed, re mending fences.
    PWD: "you're the seed, the relationship is the soil, and the love and attention and work you put into the relationship is the sun and the rain that feeds it. What grows from that is what you always were meant to become."

    TARDIS: "Biting’s like kissing. Only there’s a winner."

    My photographs: Cthulhu on vacation; Gencon 2012; Gencon 2008; Gencon 2007; ENnies 2007

  • #218
    EVOLVED: I'm an iguana! dar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Oratio
    1,869

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by mhensley View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    There are some ways to fix healing that won't (IMO) piss off grognards (like myself). Allow wizards to cast healing spells if they are good aligned. This recreates the very old fantasy character type of the white mage (gandalf, final fantasy, countless other sources). Allow all characters to heal a little bit after a fight by taking a 10 minute rest. This is done in a fiddly manner in 4e but it's roots go all the way back to a optional rule introduced by Judges Guild for 0e. Allow a first aid skill to actually heal some damage. Give everyone some fate points that could be used for a variety of things - one being to heal yourself at any point.
    I like these. I'd add allowing characters to be devoted to their god/religion so they can get a bit of devine intervention in the form of healing. Not full cleric cross classing or paladin but a little something.

  • #219
    I don't FEEL wealthy. Ulrik's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Province
    Oslo
    Oratio
    3,180

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Bagpuss View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Still I think something 4E did do right with the cleric was allow them to do healing, and something more fun in the same turn. I frequently played a Cleric in earlier editions, and having to give up what you planned because some idiot fighter got himself injured was annoying.
    Healing Word is good. Attack powers that heal aren't.

  • #220
    Damn you, Rusty COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Rel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Province
    In my house.
    Oratio
    20,688

    Ignore User
    I think this whole healing sidebar is a very interesting facet of gaming, and D&D in particular. It really highlights some of the limitations of the Hit Point mechanic (which I think is too much of a Sacred Cow to get rid of in D&D).

    My take is this:
    If you measure damage in hit points then how much damage is going to be inflicted on an average party member during an average combat?
    If that damage has the potential to kill a party member then it is probably a supposition of the system that methods of in-combat healing are available to the party.
    If that holds true then what should be the cost in terms of actions in order to do that kind of healing?
    Who should bear that cost in actions?

    I think that the model used in 3e and prior, where the Cleric is generally the party healer and must dedicate spell slots for healing AND use up "standard actions" casting those spells, is probably not going to fly if it is assumed that combat healing will be frequently necessary. There are certainly people out there who feel that the way they enjoy contributing to the success of the party in the game is primarily by healing. But I posit that they are few enough that you can't count on having one in every gaming group.

    4e solved a great many of these issues but clearly lots of people don't like those solutions so 5e is going to have to come up with something different. Since I don't think they are going to get rid of hit points, I think that some kind of VP/WP system would be a really smart move. I think it's a gaming structure that has lots of interesting ways of interacting with other parts of the system.
    www.scottmoorecoaching.com

    The next CAMP NCGD is on April 23-27, 2015.

  • #221
    Ass Aggressor! COMMUNITY SUPPORTER loki44's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Province
    Atlanta, GA
    Oratio
    21,376

    Ignore User
    Wow, you go away for a few days and a new edition is announced. I'm already behind......again.
    You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.
    Plato


    Invisible Castle

  • #222
    EVOLVED: I'm an iguana! dar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Oratio
    1,869

    Ignore User
    Just before 4e Ryan Dancy said Hasbro looked at D&D and Magic as each a seperate branch that needed to make 50mil or be a sideline. Hasn't that changed, didn't someone say that, isn't all of WotC one of those branches of hasbro? If true I have more hope for 5e cause some of that heat is off which I think could only help the designers.

  • #223
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Province
    Dayton
    Oratio
    5,598

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by Rel View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    ...I think that some kind of VP/WP system would be a really smart move. I think it's a gaming structure that has lots of interesting ways of interacting with other parts of the system.
    That's my take as well. Having VP/WP also opens a few cans of worms, but I think it's a net gain.

    I also don't think it should be in the base game, but works fine as an additional layer.

  • #224
    Fox Confessor jasin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Province
    Zagreb
    Oratio
    3,950

    Ignore User

  • #225
    Loves Vanilla Ice Cream delericho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Province
    Falkirk
    Oratio
    1,104

    Ignore User
    Quote Originally Posted by dar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Just before 4e Ryan Dancy said Hasbro looked at D&D and Magic as each a seperate branch that needed to make 50mil or be a sideline. Hasn't that changed, didn't someone say that, isn't all of WotC one of those branches of hasbro? If true I have more hope for 5e cause some of that heat is off which I think could only help the designers.
    I really hope that requirement is gone. If they're still under that $50M requirement, they're doomed before they start.

    However, it would explain why they're banging the 'reunification' drum so hard...

  • Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •