Thread: Random RPG Thoughts (No Videogames Allowed!)

  1. #5761
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    When 4e was around there was a lot of talk about how it's powers system was very similar, or possibly taken directly from, a 3.x third party product. I had thought it was a Green Ronin thing but can't find any evidence of that. Something about blades maybe in the title? Ugh, I hate my memory.
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  • #5762
    Redwick, re-imagined RedWick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kzach View Post
    When 4e was around there was a lot of talk about how it's powers system was very similar, or possibly taken directly from, a 3.x third party product. I had thought it was a Green Ronin thing but can't find any evidence of that. Something about blades maybe in the title? Ugh, I hate my memory.
    The Book of Nine Swords? Official WotC product though...iirc, Wizards previewed/tested the 4E-style powers in the book, so maybe that's what you're thinking of.
    Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast. - Douglas Adams

  • #5763
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedWick View Post
    The Book of Nine Swords? Official WotC product though...iirc, Wizards previewed/tested the 4E-style powers in the book, so maybe that's what you're thinking of.
    Yeup! That's the one! Thanks. I'd rep but can't.
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  • #5764
    Quote Originally Posted by Kzach View Post
    Yeup! That's the one! Thanks. I'd rep but can't.
    Not just that book. They also had at-will abilities in the Warlock class and reserve feats for wizards/sorcerers. It seemed like a lot of the later books had test 4e mechanics in them.

  • #5765
    I can't believe it's an admin COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Bront's Avatar
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    So, my living campaign kicked off well. I'll try to run it at some local cons and am working on getting it into Gen Con.

  • #5766
    I'm at that interesting point in my campaign where I have to figure out how to deliver some information to my players that will both:

    a) provide them some background on the immediate situation they're in, and
    b) give them the seeds of an idea that I hope will lead to them figuring out a solution to the big mystery/challenge of the campaign, which they won't see for 5+ levels.

    I'm generally pretty good at getting this stuff across; the challenge will be in presenting the pieces of info so that the players are able to put the puzzle together when the time comes, and feel like they solved it themselves rather than me providing the answer. I'll certainly have chances to nudge them in the right direction in the future, but I expect them to pick up on the small clues and run with them to the point that I won't have to do too much of that. I'm lucky in that all of my players are very clever in that regard.
    We've always been at war with Eastasia.
    If other people's pain didn't amuse me, I wouldn't be a GM. -barsoomcore

  • #5767
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    I'm generally pretty good at getting this stuff across; the challenge will be in presenting the pieces of info so that the players are able to put the puzzle together when the time comes, and feel like they solved it themselves rather than me providing the answer. I'll certainly have chances to nudge them in the right direction in the future, but I expect them to pick up on the small clues and run with them to the point that I won't have to do too much of that. I'm lucky in that all of my players are very clever in that regard.
    Good luck with that. I've given up on things like this. Being subtle has never paid off for me. If I could find a group that could both drive the narrative and pick up on subtle clues, I'd be playing FATE, not D&D.

    Then again, it's probably heavily dependant on the group dynamic and I could've just been unlucky for the last 30 years of putting together dozens of groups and participating in dozens of others. You know your group best so without us knowing that dynamic, it's almost impossible to really add any relevant or helpful advice that isn't merely anecdotal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
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  • #5768
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Decrying players lack of grasping subtle hints is mostly a failure to grasp the nature of the medium. You can't expect players to recall and collate multiple subtle clues that are usually delivered across months of real time play. Not to mention "subtle" usually means "not clearly delivered."

    Subtle can work across a single session, or a few sessions on the same arc, provided it's not complicated and you repeat it enough (yes, you can be subtle and repetitive). In general, though, I find it best to not go for subtle, but instead drop hints often and long before a twist. This way the players have a better chance at remembering the hints when you get to the twist.

    I've been running a big mystery plot in my 5e campaign and this is the model I've followed. So far, at every big reveal, my players have felt it was still a surprise, but that there had been sufficient clues beforehand if they'd just put it together. One player has a solid theory on the next reveal, which is both close and very wrong in the best ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #5769
    I think it's pretty well accepted that players need about 4x as many clues as the DM initially thinks they need. I do know my players very well, and it also helps that this campaign is in the same campaign world (and with most of the same players) as my previous 1-20th level 3.5 campaign. There's a high level of familiarity there that really helps. I've been especially gratified at how the players have built their PC's using little bits and pieces of lore from the game world that I didn't even really expect them to retain.

    I'm on the same page with Ovi here - subtle and repetitive is the way to go, and if the PC's don't piece together the mystery quite on their own, so long as they feel like they could have, that's OK. I want that Agatha Christie kind of feeling - that all the info you needed was there, if only you had thought to put them together in the right order.

    Which reminds me of an old 2e campaign I ran - I was laying out clues in this manner, and one PC in particular was seeing visions that gave him all the clues. He wasn't quite putting it all together though, and I was at a bit of a loss as to why. Then two things happened: first I figured out what could put him on the right track, and the PC finally took advantage of something that I had laid out early on in the game - a seer who had offered to tell fortunes for the PC's as a reward for having helped him in the past. The player also knew he was missing something, so he wanted a reading about the clues. Rather than really give him another clue, or explain it explicitly, I had the reading fail rather spectacularly (it had to do with a fragment of Vecna's soul that the PC had coem into contact with), but with the seer pointing out something the player hadn't realized (because I hadn't made it clear enough - that was the thing that I figured out): the visions he was seeing were in chronological order; ie, the first vision happened first, the second second, etc. All of a sudden the clues went from random bits to a narrative, and the player could tell logically what the next "chapter" of the story would probably be, and what the party needed to do. It ended up being a really memorable moment in that campaign.
    Last edited by Kid Charlemagne; January 6th, 2017 at 01:45 PM.
    We've always been at war with Eastasia.
    If other people's pain didn't amuse me, I wouldn't be a GM. -barsoomcore

  • #5770
    consequences 3catcircus's Avatar
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    I've found that it is helpful to do a "recap" every time I drop another breadcrumb for my players.

    We had some difficulties a month or so into our current campaign since they couldn't see how the various clues fit so I recapped and used a mind map along with it to show the connections - it was only then that they realized that there were multiple plots afoot - some connected, others stand-alone. Such is the nature of a sandboxy campaign...

  • #5771
    I'm currently using a Google+ community to drum up discussion before games, and some Google docs to track things - magic items and treasure, but most important for the purposes of this discussion, an NPC list. I update after each session with whatever new NPC's they meet, a sentence or two about them, and their last known status (dead, missing, imprisoned, etc). It's too early to tell exactly how well its helping the players keep track of things, but it seems like it should help. I also post some campaign related background - info on the gods, or politics in the campaign world, and the format let's the players ask questions pretty easily. During the last campaign I had a forum but that didn't get nearly as much use.

    I am leery of dropping too many threads into my game for the reason you mention - I don't want them get too deep in the weeds thinking everything is related.
    We've always been at war with Eastasia.
    If other people's pain didn't amuse me, I wouldn't be a GM. -barsoomcore

  • #5772
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    I'm currently using a Google+ community to drum up discussion before games, and some Google docs to track things - magic items and treasure, but most important for the purposes of this discussion, an NPC list. I update after each session with whatever new NPC's they meet, a sentence or two about them, and their last known status (dead, missing, imprisoned, etc).
    Pfft, amateur :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
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    I'm mostly with Spoony.

  • #5773
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Speaking of campaign management, this just popped up on my radar:

    https://arcana.io/

    Still in beta but looking good and seems to have some community (reddit) support so could be pretty spiffy eventually.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
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    I'm mostly with Spoony.

  • #5774
    I can't believe it's an admin COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Bront's Avatar
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    Anyone know where I could find cat humanoid miniatures.

  • #5775
    toxic Xyxox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bront View Post
    Anyone know where I could find cat humanoid miniatures.
    These are the sum total of what I could find on Reaper:

    http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStor...sku-down/02785

    http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStor...sku-down/02880

    http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStor...sku-down/02575

    http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStor...sku-down/02910

    Dark Sword has a couple of nice ones:

    http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/s...th-dagger.html

    http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/s...eductress.html

    http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/s...laser-gun.html

    If you don't mind an Egyptian theme, the Basti line from Crocodile Games are cat people:

    https://www.crocodilegames.com/store...dID&rowStart=1

    A more obscure source would be the Khaliman Republic miniatures for Alkemy:

    http://alkemy-the-game.com/shop/cate...?id_category=6
    Trump is just Putin's little bitch.

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