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Thread: Social Shenanigans (Second Verse)

  1. #16
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yablo View Post
    Homosexuality is morally the same as Satan eating children for you? How not surprising. Please, keep reinforcing the image we have of you.
    See strawman argument definition above. It's a stupid argument. Nobody is going to make anybody do that.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

 

  • #17
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    What is art? That's subjective as well. So no, I don't believe they are discriminating because of biblical beliefs, but out of bigotry. In that case, I don't agree with them. Because Mathew 7:12 overrides whatever verse they can trot out to justify themselves.
    What is art? It's speech. End of relevance. And, they are NOT discriminating by choosing to not create a piece of art with a message they disagree with -- for whatever reason. Discrimination is refusing a customer from a protected class based on their membership in the protected class. The customers were not refused -- creating the art was refused. Your argument says that it's okay to force a Muslim artist to paint a painting of Mohammed kissing a pig if the requester is gay.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    See strawman argument definition above. It's a stupid argument. Nobody is going to make anybody do that.
    Really? There's rather famous rape art out there, like the Rape of Proserpina, a famous antique Greek statue. Even more murder art.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #19
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
    Really? There's rather famous rape art out there, like the Rape of Proserpina, a famous antique Greek statue. Even more murder art.
    Yeah, but nobody was made to do it. So it is a strawman argument.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #20
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    Suppose it was you wanting some stuff done for a wedding and your spouse is a different race then you. The artist then says it's against their religious beliefs to serve you because you are marrying a mixed race person. Would you be okay with it?
    I wouldn't care. My dollar would walk to the next artist, and so on until i found one willing to accept my money.

    Capitalism wins in the end.

    This has happened in the past.
    I don't care.



    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    So no, I don't believe they are discriminating because of biblical beliefs, but out of bigotry.
    What you believe doesn't matter. The question put to you is what is the difference between forcing you to make art against your wishes, and forcing them to make art against their wishes.

    Why is it okay to enslave them to another's will, but not you.



    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    Nobody is going to make anybody do that.
    Not yet. Just wait, if these two are jailed or fined for this, then the alt right will come out in force and begin commissioning problematic art from the SJW art crowd*... and if you think otherwise you really are living in a fantasy land.


    * And despite laughing my ass off, I will be opposed to that just as strongly as I am to this.
    I can delete you, one click and you're overwritten.

  • #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    Yeah, but nobody was made to do it. So it is a strawman argument.
    Non-sequitur. Your claim is that people can force others to make art that they want, so long as they are a protected class. You're dismissing some messages as too wild for you to consider, too shocking to the conscience to contemplate. But, you're only judging from your narrow view of what's acceptable and what's not. The law isn't you, it applies to everyone. So, if you think it's okay to force artists to create art bearing messages they disapprove of, then you also approve things like forcing artists to create rape art. You can't draw a legal line at where you think it should be.

    Honestly, I don't know why I bother. You're too gorram stupid to actually grasp this. I'll just have to settle for the law doing a good job of protecting you from your own wanted hell.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #22
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
    Non-sequitur. Your claim is that people can force others to make art that they want, so long as they are a protected class. You're dismissing some messages as too wild for you to consider, too shocking to the conscience to contemplate. But, you're only judging from your narrow view of what's acceptable and what's not. The law isn't you, it applies to everyone. So, if you think it's okay to force artists to create art bearing messages they disapprove of, then you also approve things like forcing artists to create rape art. You can't draw a legal line at where you think it should be.

    Honestly, I don't know why I bother. You're too gorram stupid to actually grasp this. I'll just have to settle for the law doing a good job of protecting you from your own wanted hell.
    What, because I don't fall for your exaggerated what-if arguments so I'll agree that it's okay to discriminate against gay people? Nope, not gonna work.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    What, because I don't fall for your exaggerated what-if arguments so I'll agree that it's okay to discriminate against gay people? Nope, not gonna work.
    Yes, that's why you're a moron that fails to grasp the situation: because I used examples you can't think your way through. Regardless, this was already lost in Masterpiece Cakeshop, it will be so in this case. Your inability to understand won't change that.

    Are you okay with a white person forcing a black person to create art depicting blacks as slaves? I strongly doubt it. And, good.

    Now, are you okay with a black person forcing a white person to create art depicting whites as slaves?

    Are you okay with a Christian forcing a Muslim to create art depicting Mohammend as a pig?

    Are you okay with a Muslim forcing a Christian to create art depicting Jesus as a pig?

    Are you okay with a straight person forcing a gay to create art depicting themselves in a straight relationship?

    Are you okay with a gay person forcing a straight person to create art depicting themselves in a gay relationship?

    Are you okay with a gay person forcing a straight person to create gay sexually themed art, even if the straight person finds it personally distasteful (hence why they're straight)?

    Now, ask yourself, is there anything except your personal beliefs defining which of these is okay and which isn't? For me, they're all no, because you cannot force an artist to create art they don't want to, for any reason. And that's not discrimination. Discrimination is using the characteristics of a person as a reason to not do business with them. But what you create is a different class from who you sell to. At this point, only willfully blind idiots or those with authoritarian bents don't get this. You cannot refuse to sell a black man a sandwich, for instance, but you can refuse to draw that black man a picture of you giving him a sandwich even if you sell drawings and take requests. You can do the second because you don't have to draw that for anyone, so you aren't discriminating based on amount of melanin. You could also not sell the black man a sandwich if you didn't sell sandwiches to anyone as well. Art that doesn't exist cannot be forced into existence because someone is in a protected class. If the art already exists, you cannot refuse to sell it to someone because they're in a protected class. But, you don't have to make it for any reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #24
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Look, I'm not okay with any of that. However, none of that applies in this case.

    It's a business denying service to a couple based on the fact that they are gay and are using the bible to justify their actions, when in fact, if they truly followed the bible, they couldn't. Mathew 7:12 over-rides any argument they could bring based on religion. Let's face it, they're being bigots. Those arguments you are trotting out are strawmen arguments.

    So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
    They aren't doing that. So their protests that they are following biblical truth? Falls flat as an open can of soda left out for two days. Nice try at the strawman argument attempt though. I applaud that. Sadly, I made the spot-check.
    Last edited by kirinke; December 27th, 2018 at 03:06 AM.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #25
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    It's a business denying service to a couple based on the fact that they are gay and are using the bible to justify their actions...
    So, you'd be okay if they denied a straight couple that wanted gay anime art at their wedding? Because, say for instance the couple fell in love while watching Yuri!!! On Ice or some bullshit.

    when in fact, if they truly followed the bible, they couldn't.
    No one gives a shit and that's a strawman argument.
    I can delete you, one click and you're overwritten.

  • #26
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    No one gives a shit and that's a strawman argument
    Actually, it isn't. Mathew 7:12 is the golden rule and a big part of being Christian (it's probably the biggest rule outside of the commandments). If they aren't following that rule, then they aren't following biblical truth. So their argument about following biblical truth falls apart when you take that into account.
    Last edited by kirinke; December 27th, 2018 at 12:46 PM.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    Actually, it isn't. Mathew 7:12 is the golden rule and a big part of being Christian (it's probably the biggest rule outside of the commandments). If they aren't following that rule, then they aren't following biblical truth. So their argument about following biblical truth falls apart when you take that into account.
    Pretty sure they don't want to force gay artists to make the painting, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #28
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Yeah, Yuri art? I was introduced to that while playing South Park Fractured but whole. Not exactly my cup o tea.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    Actually, it isn't.
    The strawman is that whether or not they are bigots has any standing on the law or on forcing others to serve as you demand they do.


    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    Yeah, Yuri art? I was introduced to that while playing South Park Fractured but whole. Not exactly my cup o tea.
    So answer the question. Is it okay to force them to make gay art for a straight person's wedding? Or are they allowed to discriminate against the straights because, "feelings"?
    I can delete you, one click and you're overwritten.

  • #30
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    So answer the question. Is it okay to force them to make gay art for a straight person's wedding? Or are they allowed to discriminate against the straights because, "feelings"?
    Look, if they make gay art for one side, they gotta for the other side. If they make regular art for one side, same for the other side. It's just like the 'we don't serve blacks' nonsense back in the day. It was wrong then, it's wrong now. That's the problem. It's doubly wrong since they're using the bible to justify their stupid.

    Plus, it's against biblical truth to discriminate against others. Do unto others as you'd have em do unto you ring bells?
    Last edited by kirinke; December 27th, 2018 at 04:58 PM.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

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