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Thread: #Treason

  1. #31
    %0 correct Scarbonac's Avatar
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    While there were cries of "Draft-dodging", Clinton wasn't pretending to have bone-spurs or anything like that; he was genuinely anti-war. No, the loudest and most piercing shrieks from the Right were about the "treason" of protesting the USA while in a foreign country.
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  • #32
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    I do recall the draft dodging thing. It's the protesting thing I don't recall. Though, again, I am sure it happened. I just don't recall it, and it certainly did not dominate the news for a decade. Again, it's not even listed among his controversy list, and stuff that only lasted a couple weeks made the list.

    What were they protesting? The Viet Nam war, in England? What was attendance at that kind of rally I suppose? Was there protest in America regarding the British occupation of Ireland and Operation Banner?

    In a review of the LA Times articles on the topic, they said he didn't even protest in England:

    Quote Originally Posted by LA Times Oct 10, 1992
    "To my knowledge, in the school year of 1968 to 1969, Bill Clinton did not organize and lead anti-war protests, or even participate in them," says fellow Rhodes scholar Cliff Jackson, the Arkansas attorney who has become one of Clinton's prime adversaries in the disputes over his draft record.

    That first year was more a time of studying and extracurricular activities--like seeking out Indian and Chinese restaurants and hitch-hiking around England--than anti-war activism, recalls Thomas S. Williamson Jr., another Oxford classmate and now a Washington attorney. "The whole first year, (protesting the war) wasn't something we did," Williamson says. "We were mainly graduate students."


    Clinton returned to the United States for the summer in 1969, as the war continued under the Nixon Administration and the American public grew increasingly impatient to end it.

    It was during this period that Clinton became involved in anti-war activities. And when the alumni of the campaign that then-Minnesota Sen. McCarthy had based on his opposition to the war gathered at the Martha's Vineyard home of John O'Sullivan, a former campaign worker-turned-Rhodes scholar named Rick Stearns brought his friend Bill Clinton.

    Asked about the gathering during an appearance Tuesday on the Phil Donohue show, Clinton said he went there "because I was a Southerner who was sympathetic with the people who worked for McCarthy."
    Edit: Ah OK I found it, it was on the next page...which I think in these LA Times archives were literally the next page, or a subsequent page.

    Quote Originally Posted by LA Times Oct 10, 1992
    That fall Clinton returned to Oxford, where he was among more than 1,000 demonstrators who staged an anti-war protest outside the American Embassy in London, as vastly larger protests were taking place in Washington.

    The Rev. Richard McSorley, a peace activist who is head of the Center for Peace Studies at Georgetown, told the Washington Times newspaper this week that Clinton "was one of the main organizers of the American Embassy protest."

    Robert B. Reich, a Harvard University professor and key economic adviser to Clinton's campaign who was at Oxford with the candidate, recalls such efforts as informal in nature. He says: "What I remember is that many of us--Bill included--did a lot of telephoning to other Americans, alerting them to the time and place of marches. That was the meaning of organizing."

    Clinton himself said this week that the only war protest he organized while attending Oxford was a "teach-in" at the University of London. "That's the only thing that I ever helped to put together."

    Stephen C. Engstrom, now a Little Rock, Ark., attorney, recalls visiting a friend on the Oxford campus in the fall of 1969 and attending a meeting of American students who were discussing an upcoming Vietnam War protest.

    "There were some pretty radical views being voiced, and there were some conservative views being voiced," Engstrom said in an interview. "Clinton kind of took on a moderator's position, if anything."

    Williamson said that he and Clinton served as marshals at a protest--he can't recall if it was the march outside the U.S. Embassy--and basically were supposed to help people file along the protest route. "We were asked to stand in particular places to help ensure that it would be a peaceful demonstration, which it was," he said.
    I have yet to find any prominent conservative analyst or politician of the time making a "treason" accusation about this, nor any newspaper article from that era mentioning this event and the accusation of "treason". For this to have dominated news for the 1990s...something would have to be in the mainstream media about it, and frequently, wouldn't it?

    Though I note you say "airwaves". By that do you mean talk radio, like Rush Limbaugh (who was one of the only ones back then)? If so, I wouldn't have heard it. I didn't listen to him. I am not even sure he was on a station in Salem Oregon when I lived there, and I didn't listen to him that last year of undergraduate college either. Is that where the "dominated the airwaves" thing comes from, that your father was hearing this controversy on the radio from a guy like Limbuagh?
    Last edited by Mistwell; July 17th, 2018 at 02:24 PM.
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  • #33
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarbonac View Post
    No, the loudest and most piercing shrieks from the Right were about the "treason" of protesting the USA while in a foreign country.
    Who the fuck cares?
    I can delete you, one click and you're overwritten.

  • #34
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarbonac View Post
    While there were cries of "Draft-dodging", Clinton wasn't pretending to have bone-spurs or anything like that; he was genuinely anti-war. No, the loudest and most piercing shrieks from the Right were about the "treason" of protesting the USA while in a foreign country.
    WHO? Who were these "loudest and most piercing" people on the right saying that, and in what forum did they say it?
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  • #35
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devoid View Post
    Even if:

    • the House cast enough votes to impeach Trump,
    • the Democratic Party won every Senate seat in the 2018 Election,
    • and all Democrats in the Senate voted in lockstep to convict Trump,


    They would still need 7+ Republican Senators to gain the Constitutionally-required 67 vote super-majority to successfully convict/remove Trump from office.

    Even if this happened, Trump may attempt to pardon himself, and cause a constitutional crisis in doing so. Since there is no precedence that I am aware of regarding presidential self-pardon, it would likely be decided by the Supreme Court. Since the current administration has replaced a conservative (Scalia) and moderate (Kennedy) justice with two conservative justices (Gorsuch and (likely) Kavanaugh), there still is an extremely slight possibility that it could rule in favor of self-pardon.

    Having Pence assuming the office of the President might not be much better than President Trump. My worst fear would be the validation of presidential self-pardoning for it would throw a wrench in the checks and balances of the three branches of U.S. government and render Congressional impeachment/conviction moot.

    Tin foil hat aside, the House probably wouldn't impeach the President anyway. Whether he stays for a second term will be determined by the voters in the 2020 Election.

    The election process has many issues that can be addressed, such as First-to-the-Post, Electoral College, and the integrity of electronic voting. Only time will tell...
    There's no power to pardon impeachment, as it's not a ctiminal finding but a proceedure for removing someone from a held position. Trump might pardon himself for any subsequent investigation, but that's a separate issue from impeachment.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #36
    John Brennan, former head of the CIA, just said what Trump did was treasonous. Obviously, Spoony is Brennan.
    Signature too big and pornographic. Next offense will be a ban.

  • #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    I do recall the draft dodging thing. It's the protesting thing I don't recall. Though, again, I am sure it happened. I just don't recall it, and it certainly did not dominate the news for a decade. Again, it's not even listed among his controversy list, and stuff that only lasted a couple weeks made the list.
    I vaguely recall hearing some of those cries against Clinton. I didn't give them any more credence than I'm giving the cries that Trump is a traitor.

  • #38
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    He's a fucking moron easily led by flattery.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #39
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Fuckwits will equivocate, apologise for and defend Trump right up until their dying breath from Trump's insanity. They truly are utterly delusional.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
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    I'm mostly with Spoony.

  • #40
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kzach View Post
    Fuckwits will equivocate, apologise for and defend Trump right up until their dying breath from Trump's insanity. They truly are utterly delusional.
    Shhh you're supposed to be pretending I am on ignore.
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  • #41
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMaxperson View Post
    Being stupid isn't a crime.
    This explains why you're not in jail.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
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    I'm mostly with Spoony.

  • #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kzach View Post
    This explains why you're not in jail.
    Kzach, you're a peach. Never stop being so predictable. I love being able to set you up like that.

  • #43
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMaxperson View Post
    I love being able to set you up like that.
    You know that retroactively trying to appear smart only works on Trump voters, right?

    Oh wait, that's who you voted for...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
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    I'm mostly with Spoony.

  • #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Kzach View Post
    You know that retroactively trying to appear smart only works on Trump voters, right?

    Oh wait, that's who you voted for...

  • #45
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMaxperson View Post
    I'm so glad you find treason funny. It'll help with your insanity defence at the trials.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
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    I'm mostly with Spoony.

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