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Thread: #Treason

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    Personally, I don't think it amounts to treason. We aren't exactly at war with Russia after all. Now high crimes and misdemenors? Maaybe. IF you squint and look hard at it and got a sympathetic Senate and House who will step up to the plate and swing, which we don't right now. At best, I'd just wait for Mueller to get done with his investigation and add this instance to the pile.
    Being stupid isn't a crime. Fabricating "high crimes and misdemeanors" to remove a president who does stupid things, and due to another country's interference, would be closer to treason than what Trump is doing.

    By the time it's done, there will be enough to impeach Trump. Right now? It's not enough and with the current mood, it's not going to happen. And yes, I loathe and hate the man, but even I can see the reality of the situation.
    He's not going to be impeached. He'll finish out this term and hopefully lose the next election.

    It's still a stupid, stupid, stupid thing to do.

    God, I hate being a voice of reason...
    It's rough in this climate. You end up being called Trump lover, Trump voter, and worse. And yes, it was a very stupid thing to do. :P

 

  • #17
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Anybody that calls me a Trump lover to the face is going to get a stomp on the foot followed by a punch to the balls.... Yeah, probably not, but bad words will be said for sure.

    Personally, I think there will be enough to impeach Trump once Mueller's investigation is done. Whether or not Congress will do it? That I doubt. There's just too many fucking, lick spittle cowards in both the house and who will put the kabosh on that sort of thing right now. Bastards.

    After November if the Democrats get enough seats in the House/Senate there might be a slightly better chance for impeaching and removing Trump.

    It just depends on how much more stupid and blatant Trump gets and how much lower he'll sink before people have had enough. Right now, we haven't reached that point. Fucking assholes....

    The other reality is, Pence is just that much worse, because he's smarter than Trump, but in his own evil way just as bad. So we'll be exchanging the fucking clown howling on twitter for the fucking clown waving a bible at everyone and claiming 'god has spoken to me'.


    Now I feel better.

    Fuck. What a damnedable mess.
    Last edited by kirinke; July 17th, 2018 at 03:22 AM.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #18
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farside View Post
    It dominated the airwaves for a good part of the 90s...
    It was stupid non-news then and is still stupid non-news now. Why would any one bother devoting brain space to remembering it is beyond me.
    I wouldn't even censor you.

  • #19
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farside View Post
    I've been listening to the right-wing insist for almost 30 years that Bill Clinton committed treason for participating in overseas campus anti-Vietnam protests in 1969. My Dad still will bring it up now and then. Yet when Trump....


    A small reminder, since I am sure at least a couple of the right-wingers will deny this. Speaking of which, the goal-post moving and flip-flopping these days is insane (this is spite of my long held assertion that being able to change one's mind is a sign of maturity - in this case, it is vile.)

    https://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/08/u...-protests.html

    THE 1992 CAMPAIGN: The Republicans; Bush Questions Clinton's Account Of Vietnam-Era Protests and Trip
    Which right-winger here? That's just stupid of the same caliber as the OP.

    EDIT: read the link, where does it say treason? Questioning the actions, even with disapproval, is A-OK. I question Trump's actions today and disapprove of them. Neither is treason. Or even close to it.
    Last edited by Ovinomancer; July 17th, 2018 at 03:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    I think ovi's right.

  • #20
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    God, I hate being a voice of reason...
    Good news! You still aren't.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    I think ovi's right.

  • #21
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
    Good news! You still aren't.
    Thanks! Reality is restored!

    Sort of.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #22
    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    Personally, I think there will be enough to impeach Trump once Mueller's investigation is done. Whether or not Congress will do it? That I doubt. There's just too many fucking, lick spittle cowards in both the house and who will put the kabosh on that sort of thing right now. Bastards.
    He's not quite as dumb as he speaks. I think there will be enough plausible deniability that he'll skate by. It will be interesting to see which of us is right.

    After November if the Democrats get enough seats in the House/Senate there might be a slightly better chance for impeaching and removing Trump.
    I hope they get one or both. I hate when one party controls all three. Bad things always happen.

    It just depends on how much more stupid and blatant Trump gets and how much lower he'll sink before people have had enough. Right now, we haven't reached that point. Fucking assholes....
    He has to cross that line into criminality. Stupid just isn't enough. Even with Clinton, as stupid as it was to try and impeach him, had at its core the perjury. I will say that Trump has me wanting an amendment adding in some sort of no confidence removal with like 2/3 of the Senate or something.

    The other reality is, Pence is just that much worse, because he's smarter than Trump, but in his own evil way just as bad. So we'll be exchanging the fucking clown howling on twitter for the fucking clown waving a bible at everyone and claiming 'god has spoken to me'.
    As bad as he is, Trump is mostly just a joke. Most of what he's doing can be unraveled, so it's not long term damage. Pence on the other hand would get some long term stuff done. At this point I'm just hoping he loses next election.

  • #23
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    As bad as he is, Trump is mostly just a joke. Most of what he's doing can be unraveled, so it's not long term damage. Pence on the other hand would get some long term stuff done. At this point I'm just hoping he loses next election.
    It'd be a fucking nightmare scenario if Trump was actually removed if I'm looking at it from a logical standpoint and not a Democrat screw it, get him out kind of way.

    From what I've seen, Pence is actually semi-smart. He's stayed mostly quiet and kept a distance from the chaos around Trump and has only appeared when he has had to.

    That tells me, he knows what he's doing at least to a point. To me, he's the would-be Palpatine behind the scenes (I know an exaggeration, but still). That is what scares me really. What is that fucker planning?

    Trump is a loudmouth bore and I hate his guts. I don't fear him. Pence? He's scary. Mainly because he's relatively smart for a political critter, ambitious, corrupt, religious (at least pays lip service anyway) and evil (he sides with Trump, it's a given). Put somebody like that in power and the current problems we have now will seem like a golden age in comparison.

    So yeah. The Democrat, flaming liberal inside me is torn. On one hand I'd do the happy dance seeing Trump removed.

    On the other hand, we have Pence. Smiling Pence, waiting quietly, patiently in the wings.

    Fucking HELL. We're screwed. No lube.
    Last edited by kirinke; July 17th, 2018 at 04:02 AM.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    After November if the Democrats get enough seats in the House/Senate there might be a slightly better chance for impeaching and removing Trump.
    Even if:

    • the House cast enough votes to impeach Trump,
    • the Democratic Party won every Senate seat in the 2018 Election,
    • and all Democrats in the Senate voted in lockstep to convict Trump,


    They would still need 7+ Republican Senators to gain the Constitutionally-required 67 vote super-majority to successfully convict/remove Trump from office.

    Even if this happened, Trump may attempt to pardon himself, and cause a constitutional crisis in doing so. Since there is no precedence that I am aware of regarding presidential self-pardon, it would likely be decided by the Supreme Court. Since the current administration has replaced a conservative (Scalia) and moderate (Kennedy) justice with two conservative justices (Gorsuch and (likely) Kavanaugh), there still is an extremely slight possibility that it could rule in favor of self-pardon.

    Having Pence assuming the office of the President might not be much better than President Trump. My worst fear would be the validation of presidential self-pardoning for it would throw a wrench in the checks and balances of the three branches of U.S. government and render Congressional impeachment/conviction moot.

    Tin foil hat aside, the House probably wouldn't impeach the President anyway. Whether he stays for a second term will be determined by the voters in the 2020 Election.

    The election process has many issues that can be addressed, such as First-to-the-Post, Electoral College, and the integrity of electronic voting. Only time will tell...

  • #25
    a figment of your imagination COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Palaralae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    It'd be a fucking nightmare scenario if Trump was actually removed if I'm looking at it from a logical standpoint and not a Democrat screw it, get him out kind of way.

    From what I've seen, Pence is actually semi-smart. He's stayed mostly quiet and kept a distance from the chaos around Trump and has only appeared when he has had to.

    That tells me, he knows what he's doing at least to a point. To me, he's the would-be Palpatine behind the scenes (I know an exaggeration, but still). That is what scares me really. What is that fucker planning?

    Trump is a loudmouth bore and I hate his guts. I don't fear him. Pence? He's scary. Mainly because he's relatively smart for a political critter, ambitious, corrupt, religious (at least pays lip service anyway) and evil (he sides with Trump, it's a given). Put somebody like that in power and the current problems we have now will seem like a golden age in comparison.

    So yeah. The Democrat, flaming liberal inside me is torn. On one hand I'd do the happy dance seeing Trump removed.

    On the other hand, we have Pence. Smiling Pence, waiting quietly, patiently in the wings.

    Fucking HELL. We're screwed. No lube.
    Ok, I guess I've seen it all here, now. Kirinke and I feeling pretty much the same way on something fairly major. I console myself that I said something like this here waaaay back, either just before or just after the election, that Trump was a loudmouth, bloviating ass, but Pence was actually the worse option if it came down to it.

    Add to that not only is Pence obviously canny and a career politician, he's the seriously "conservative Christian" type, and is no friend to women or LGBTQ in a very big way.
    "And now? With no drunks? There ain't no bums.
    And with no bums, there ain't no muthafuckas to feed the ducks at the park.
    What's a fuckin' town with no ducks, J-Tro? It's nothin'! IT AIN'T NOTHIN!
    How's a ***** to sort his shit out without no DUCKS?!"

  • #26
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Yeah, sometimes, hell alot of the times, I just want Trump out of the Presidency. Then I realize, shit-fuck. There's Pence.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
    Which right-winger here? That's just stupid of the same caliber as the OP.

    EDIT: read the link, where does it say treason? Questioning the actions, even with disapproval, is A-OK. I question Trump's actions today and disapprove of them. Neither is treason. Or even close to it.
    Good god, you are a bunch of willingly amnesia fraught imbeciles.

    Try this: https://www.google.com/search?num=50....0.MgkM_VKJJkE

    Or since history today only encompasses the past few years:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=obam...nt=firefox-b-1

  • #28
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farside View Post
    It dominated the airwaves for a good part of the 90s, before Starr and to a smaller degree after. You either were not listening, or have selective memory, or were a child then. (I have no clue how old you are, so I will assume you were either a kid then, or the second, or a third option, which is you are lying. It was everywhere.)
    I was not a kid. I was graduating with a polisci degree that year and moving on to law school, and coming off being head of the debate team, and very politically active. And I genuinely have no recollection of that controversy. Admittedly I was pretty fucking busy studying in 1992, and doing full time college, and full time working. You calling me a liar for not remembering a single scandal? Weird.

    I understand it dominated your world view in some fashion because your Dad brought it up a lot, but it's not even listed on the big list of Clinton Scandals unless I failed to spot it (it's a big long list). And I fucking remember the haircut scandal, and i don't remember the one you're referring to.

    I am not saying it didn't happen - I am sure it did. I am saying I don't think it was as big a deal in the wider world as it was in your world, and your assumption it was is myopic. It definitely did not "dominate the 90s". It doesn't even crack the top 10 Clinton scandals of the 90s, even pre-Starr. Gennifer Flowers, I didn't inhale, Rose law firm, Travelgate, Vince Foster, Troopergate, White Water, Broaddrick, Bombing of the al-Shifa pharmacy plant, selling of the Lincoln bedroom, Nannygate...I mean dude, forgive me if I don't recall one of literally dozens of scandals that administration went through.
    Last edited by Mistwell; July 17th, 2018 at 06:10 AM.
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  • #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farside View Post
    It dominated the airwaves for a good part of the 90s, before Starr and to a smaller degree after. You either were not listening, or have selective memory, or were a child then. (I have no clue how old you are, so I will assume you were either a kid then, or the second, or a third option, which is you are lying. It was everywhere.)
    See...I'm old enough to have not voted for Bill Clinton. but not based on the story as I recall it. That is, it wasn't about "treason!!!" as much as it was about "Draft Dodger!!!" for going to England when he said he was going to the ROTC program while studying law at Arkansas. I never cared much for holding peoples' feet to the fire over doing anything they could to avoid the draft - stupid law anyway. Now if people were equating that to treason - well, OK I suppose.

    But if you're referring to something else, I can add to the Nay votes by saying I certainly don't recall it the way you do and I absolutely don't recall air waves being dominated by a discussion of Treason....
    My Other Sword Is Vorpal

  • #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    See...I'm old enough to have not voted for Bill Clinton. but not based on the story as I recall it. That is, it wasn't about "treason!!!" as much as it was about "Draft Dodger!!!" for going to England when he said he was going to the ROTC program while studying law at Arkansas. I never cared much for holding peoples' feet to the fire over doing anything they could to avoid the draft - stupid law anyway. Now if people were equating that to treason - well, OK I suppose.
    That's what I remember, too. It was about draft dodging. I suppose some people were calling it treason, just like you have some people calling Trump a traitor, but people doing that are just loonies. The main stream story was draft dodging.

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