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Thread: Is it fascism yet?

  1. #46
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoony View Post
    In Fascism the corporations own the state.
    You don't actually know what fascism is do you?


    Fascism (purely discussing the economic side) is weirdly flavor capitalism. In such, corporations are still privately owned (or leased from the state in some cases) but are much more heavily regulated than 'normally' flavored capitalism.

    You could get a corporate oligarchy to form into a fascist regime (still discussing the economy) wherein the governing body (made up of the corporations) regulated the corporations to the benefit of the state and not the corporations, but it would be weird* (and not likely to last).





    * And isn't that the premise of the corporate controlled states in Shadowrun? It is the premise of the Corporate Council in Continuum.
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  • #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhidu View Post
    It's a matter of degree - US exceptionalism and Nazism come from the same place, the far different orders of magnitude.

    Nationalism, like most things, is best in moderation.
    Sure, and a candle and the Sun are just different orders of magnitude.

    Seriously, American exceptionalism, while largely undeserved, is based on the concept that we have valid things to teach other peoples -- that they will be made better by following our example. One of those ideas is the melting pot -- that peoples are made better by sharing cultures with a few, freedom based core principles to guide such adoption. Nazism is a belief of inherent superiority to justify the assimilation of other cultures and people and their subjugation to the Nazi principles. Saying these things are dissimilar only by magnitude is crucially missing the evil inherent in Nazism and other jingoistic nationalist concepts.

    This isn't to say that the US hasn't had some of those jingoistic nationalism concepts at times, but we seem to get better after awhile.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by nail bunny View Post
    You don't actually know what fascism is do you?


    Fascism (purely discussing the economic side) is weirdly flavor capitalism. In such, corporations are still privately owned (or leased from the state in some cases) but are much more heavily regulated than 'normally' flavored capitalism.

    You could get a corporate oligarchy to form into a fascist regime (still discussing the economy) wherein the governing body (made up of the corporations) regulated the corporations to the benefit of the state and not the corporations, but it would be weird* (and not likely to last).





    * And isn't that the premise of the corporate controlled states in Shadowrun? It is the premise of the Corporate Council in Continuum.
    It's weirdly flavored socialism. The State's overriding control is the socialist part. Limited capitalism often works under socialist controls, but it's still under socialist controls. Modern European socialism has a hefty dose of capitalism propping it up, for instance.

    Facism, on the other hand, only allows economic activity in the benefit of the state. How that activity comes about isn't the important point -- it can be voluntary capitalism because the needs of the entrepreneur and the state align, or it can be directly controlled business directly straight from the government, as was the case with many manufacturers supporting the war effort during WWII. The key economic point of fascism is that everything serves the state -- it's part of the overriding nationalist core to fascism. For those that believe in the state, the aims of the state and their business align and it resembles capitalism. It is not -- the state is deciding what goals need to be worked towards at all times and the economics serve those goals.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #49
    I think the U.S. is transitioning to corporatism more than anything else.

  • #50
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoony View Post
    To be honest, there's one difference between communism and fascism, but it's a crucial one. In Communism the state owns all the corporations. In Fascism the corporations own the state. Both come dressed in lying promises of power to the people.
    That's just plain inaccurate for fascism. The state deeply regulates and directs the corporations in fascism. The corporations must serve the national interest in fascism.
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  • #51
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devoid View Post
    I think the U.S. is transitioning to corporatism more than anything else.
    Aye. And I hate it.
    I wouldn't even censor you.

  • #52
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMaxperson View Post
    Lots of people on the far left are saying just this.
    Lots of people think you're full of shit, in fact, 88% of people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
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    I'm mostly with Spoony.

  • #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kzach View Post
    Lots of people think you're full of shit, in fact, 88% of people.
    There was a poll on whether people think MrMaxperson is full of shit? Damn, and I missed it!
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  • #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    There was a poll on whether people think MrMaxperson is full of shit? Damn, and I missed it!
    It was a shitty poll.

  • #55
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMaxperson View Post
    It was a shitty poll.
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  • #56
    Well, lets not get all pissy about it.
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  • #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
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    I'm mostly with Spoony.

  • #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by nail bunny View Post
    Look... words have definitions. Try to use them. Properly even.

    Both fascism and communism tend to be authoritarian and oppressive. Those are the words you are looking for.
    On the political spectrum though, they are on the opposite sides of the scale. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Fascism
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

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  • #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
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    I'm mostly with Spoony.

  • #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    I'm mostly with Spoony.

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