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Thread: Census 2020

  1. #1
    Girls Gone Spoony! Spoony's Avatar
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    Census 2020

    So, Trump's gathering citizenship information and states are suing.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/27/polit...nia/index.html

    The citizenship question by itself doesn't bother me - it's the 60 odd other questions on the form because of how they're used - for gerrymandering.

    I intend to only answer 1 question on the form - how many people are in your household. Until laws are passed to make gerrymandering illegal the less the government knows, the better. I'd advise everyone else to do the same. The census is a headcount, nothing more.

 

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    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    That's the same reasoning Michelle Bachmann used in 2009 when she was mad about ACORN getting census results.

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    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Don't worry, America isn't making it to 2020 anyway; at least not as a democracy. They'll be too busy with their civil war.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
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    I'm mostly with Spoony.

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    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farside View Post
    ....which it never got, as it only signed up to help distribute promotional materials, like several dozen other organizations.
    I'm not saying that she was accurate, only that it was her reasoning.

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    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    If you fear the Government this much, why do you want them to be the only ones with guns again?
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  • #6
    An AR-15 will sure protect me from that remote controlled, missile-tipped drone bomb.
    We've always been at war with Eastasia.
    If other people's pain didn't amuse me, I wouldn't be a GM. -barsoomcore

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    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    An AR-15 will sure protect me from that remote controlled, missile-tipped drone bomb.
    Yes. Obviously. Because small arms can't possibly be useful in a fight against central governments.

  • #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhidu View Post
    Yes. Obviously. Because small arms can't possibly be useful in a fight against central governments.
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    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    An AR-15 will sure protect me from that remote controlled, missile-tipped drone bomb.
    Yeah that's not how that works you know. Generally, scenarios for tyranny in America don't involve bombing the population. I mean, we don't even bomb riots, much less guerrilla war scenarios.

    What's weird is we have seen a totalitarian regime brought down in our lifetimes which not only had about as many bombs as the U.S., but which also had just as many Nukes. And you know what? None of them were used when the USSR fell.

    Additionally, I seem to recall we lost to Viet Nam, though we had almost all the bombs involved.

    Not that I think any of this is realistic...it was you guys who claimed to fear the Government to paranoid levels, not me. I just think it's weird that someone would be both that paranoid about the Government and also wanting to give up their right to have guns so that the same Government they fear is the only entity with them. It's not a very consistent view.
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  • #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    What's weird is we have seen a totalitarian regime brought down in our lifetimes which not only had about as many bombs as the U.S., but which also had just as many Nukes. And you know what? None of them were used when the USSR fell.
    You know what else the USSR didn't have when their totalitarian regime was brought down? A populations with lots and lots of guns.
    We've always been at war with Eastasia.
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    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    You know what else the USSR didn't have when their totalitarian regime was brought down? A populations with lots and lots of guns.
    I love how all these idiots with their penis extenders think that they're going to bring down the government. They'll all be the very first to run, cowering in a totalitarian regime. Either that, or on the side of the government, happily shooting 'dissidents'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
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    I'm mostly with Spoony.

  • #12
    We've always been at war with Eastasia.
    If other people's pain didn't amuse me, I wouldn't be a GM. -barsoomcore

  • #13
    On the other hand, kudos to Mistwell for distracting us from the OP, which is about Republicans seeking to undercount people in liberal states so as to weaken those states political power.
    We've always been at war with Eastasia.
    If other people's pain didn't amuse me, I wouldn't be a GM. -barsoomcore

  • #14
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    On the other hand, kudos to Mistwell for distracting us from the OP, which is about Republicans seeking to undercount people in liberal states so as to weaken those states political power.
    So - and this is a serious question - should areas with large populations of non-citizens have more per capita representation in the House than areas without large populations of non-citizens?

  • #15
    Short answer, yes.

    Longer answer, the Supreme Court has ruled that this it is constitutional for states to use total population when determining representation, although they don't have to:

    Quote Originally Posted by constitutioncenter.org
    The question of whether a state can be required to use total population or total citizens to design legislative districts was settled in 2015 by the Supreme Court. In a majority opinion in Evenwel v. Abbott, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that a state couldn’t be barred from using total population to determine a voting district. But the Court also acknowledged that a 1966 decision, Burns v. Richardson, permitted states also to use registered voters who were citizens to determine a legislative district.
    And that's leaving aside all the other things that the census impacts, like infrastructure spending. Roads don't care whether you're a citizen when you drive on them.

    EDIT: The constitution says "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons" and doesn't specify citizen or non-citizen. Even slaves in pre-Emancipation America got 3/5 representation, so unless you want to argue legal immigrants don't deserve the same rights as slaves, I think they should be counted.
    Last edited by Kid Charlemagne; March 30th, 2018 at 04:04 PM.
    We've always been at war with Eastasia.
    If other people's pain didn't amuse me, I wouldn't be a GM. -barsoomcore

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