Thread: Civil War 2.0

  1. #166
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    So have you done any research on right wing violence? At all? If all the research you've done is on left wing violence then you're going to be biased on that. It's like those damned studies that says oranges are bad for you.

    This is from Forbes:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi.../#62a65db11e74
    Two questions. Did you actually ask yourself why a leftist stopped at 1992 in his "going back in time" search for terrorist attacks? And did you even think for a moment about why he's measuring deaths* and not attacks?

    Or did you see the words "righties have killed 10 times as many people in terror attacks as lefties" and have your eyes glaze over in the ecstasy of a false sense of easy victory.

    * Note that "deaths" does not mean "violence", so that 'report' doesn't mean what you claim it means.


    These are neither reports nor are coherent nor do they even really list things.

    There actual comparisons. Wow.
    Still waiting for a comparison of violent attacks.
    I wouldn't even smirk at you.

 

  • #167
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    So have you done any research on right wing violence? At all? If all the research you've done is on left wing violence then you're going to be biased on that. It's like those damned studies that says oranges are bad for you.

    This is from Forbes:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi.../#62a65db11e74

    This is from Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_terrorism

    This is a list of extremist attacks by type and group
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror...nti-government

    So don't tell me the Left is committing more acts of violence then the Right. Neither extreme side is full of puppies and lollypops, but the right has more under it's belt then the left thank you very much.

    There actual comparisons. Wow.
    What part of "right now" in the U.S. was unclear?

    Obviously some part, as the incredibly overwhelming majority of those links had nothing to do with even this year.

    This year, and since Trump was elected, it seems a majority is from the Left IN THE U.S.. I listed far more than anything in any of those links for just recent attacks.
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  • #168
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Here is the FBI site for hate crimes. Question, where did you get that list? You never even linked it. Also alot of what you posted isn't even a crime, but people exercising free speech. Yes, some of it is questionable, but hell it's free speech. So talking and insulting the president is bad-wrong-no-fun now?

    https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/civi...ts/hate-crimes
    Last edited by kirinke; August 2nd, 2018 at 11:41 PM.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #169
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    Here is the FBI site for hate crimes. Question, where did you get that list? You never even linked it. Also alot of what you posted isn't even a crime, but people exercising free speech. Yes, some of it is questionable, but hell it's free speech. So talking and insulting the president is bad-wrong-no-fun now?
    Well, according to some speech is violence. That some is usually ideologically left, except when Trump is attacked, then it's the ideological populists.

    All of them suggesting such are jackbooted authoritarians. Strange how many feet jackboots fit, yeah?
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #170
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
    Strange how many feet jackboots fit, yeah?
    Jackboots fit all feet.
    I wouldn't even smirk at you.

  • #171
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    Here is the FBI site for hate crimes
    Why would this be an issue of hate crimes? Hate crimes usually have to involve a protected class, and most political violence isn't a hate crime but just an ordinary crime.

    It's weird the lengths you're going to defend violence because of your tribe.
    I like hats.

  • #172
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Number one, you didn't even link a site that can be researched. When I put in 'left wing violence' it brought up a host of sketchy right wing sites. Most of the stuff listed is either free speech, or something that can't be proved either way. A brick thrown in a window or somebody saying they were attacked because of a hat or something without evidence isn't provable.

    Number two, you are indulging in protecting the right. So you're deflecting by saying 'neener, neener'.

    Number three, I'm not defending violence of any kind. You are being a troll and a fairly obvious one, because I caught on to it fairly quickly. So, exercising my own free speech, I shall indulge in a bit of bad-wrong-no-fun towards you.

    Fuck you.
    No lube.

    Add that to your silly list.
    Last edited by kirinke; August 2nd, 2018 at 11:49 PM.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #173
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Here is an example. From today. An enraged woman rammed into someones car (with them in it, almost hitting them) purely because the car had a trump bumper sticker. It's not being charged as a hate crime because political violence absent a protected class isn't a hate crime under the law. It's also not "terrorism".

    As for the list you can look up any individual element of the list. Are you denying any of them? Are you claiming they are fake? WTF is your objection?

    I am not protecting the right. I am responding to the allegation the violence is coming from the right. And you're not happy about it because my response challenges your world view. Obviously.

    How am I trolling, by offering you facts which challenge your view of how the world works? Seriously, you are in fact allowed to critically think you know. You might at least honestly consider the possibility that right now, this year, left wing violence in America is growing and a serious issue. It's OK to think about that possibility. It won't make you a traitor to Democrats or anything to be open minded.
    Last edited by Mistwell; August 3rd, 2018 at 12:01 AM.
    I like hats.

  • #174
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Yes they happened, but free speech is free speech in the list you provided. Even yelling at people and telling them they're horrible is free speech. Advocating violence is free speech, committing it is a crime. So I wouldn't count those as attacks. Now calling for an assassination might be considered an attack and get the FBI on your behind, so I'd consider that to be an attack.

    Trump tells his supporters to punch and rough protesters up all the time and calls the press enemy of the people, unpatriotic and so on all the time. You might not agree with it, but it's protected speech by itself. So it's not an attack no matter who does it.

    Somebody throwing a brick in a window isn't necessarily political. Hell, in some cases, the people who say so and so did it are the ones who actually did it!

    So that's my problem. Basically, free speech isn't an attack. You might not like it much, but it isn't an attack. Somebody yelling at you and giving you the finger isn't an attack.

    Somebody telling you that you suck because you support X person isn't an attack. Damaging their car and trying to hurt them, that's an attack.

    A brick through a window isn't a politically motivated attack until you can prove who threw it was doing so because of X reason.

    Refusing service for political reasons isn't an attack. It's stupid granted and there are consequences to your refusal, but it's not an attack.


    Does that explain things to you clearly enough? More or less, my idea of an 'attack' is can it be criminally charged and is it illegal? If not, then it's not.

    I will grant you that even if it isn't illegal, it's still immature, stupid and doesn't reflect well on civilized conduct and discourse. Sadly, there's fucktards on every spectrum. Left, right, up, down and criss-cross.

    And really, we can trade links all day long trying to prove who is better, but the end result will be that yes. We have fucktards and bugnut crazies on both sides.

    On the plus side. The right has Trump.
    The left does not.
    Neener.jpg
    Last edited by kirinke; August 3rd, 2018 at 12:33 AM.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
    Well, according to some speech is violence.
    You do not think psychological harassment or verbal threats are violent? Or you do, and you are one of those who think speech can be violent?
    Signature too big and pornographic. Next offense will be a ban.

  • #176
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    On the plus side. The right has Trump.
    The left does not.
    Neener.jpg
    True
    I like hats.

  • #177
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/01/u...groceries.html

    WASHINGTON — Just when it seemed like Tuesday’s “Make America Great Again” rally in Florida would end with the typical punch list — Democrats, journalists, immigrants — President Trump added new spice to his usual extemporaneous potpourri by asserting that supermarket shoppers need to show valid identification in the checkout aisle.

    “You know,” Mr. Trump knowingly told the approving crowd, “if you go out and you want to buy groceries, you need a picture on a card. You need ID.”

    It is not often that Mr. Trump, a mold-breaking billionaire, is seen as behaving presidentially, which he thinks would be too boring, anyway. But with this particular offhand and baldly inaccurate comment, the president landed himself in the company of other presidents and presidential hopefuls who have fumbled while trying to showcase their everyman appeal.

    The obvious question immediately surfaced: Has Mr. Trump ever been in the checkout line at a grocery store?

    everal of the president’s friends — one of them a billionaire owner of a chain of grocery stores — said they cannot recall Mr. Trump ever doing his own grocery shopping. John A. Catsimatidis, the owner of Gristedes Foods, a chain of small grocery stores in Manhattan and Brooklyn, said in an interview that he has known the president for 40 years, but cannot recall a time when Mr. Trump entered one of his stores.

    “I wouldn’t know,” Mr. Catsimatidis said. “I don’t have any pictures with him in Gristedes.”

    Thomas J. Barrack Jr., another billionaire friend of the president’s, was blunt when asked if Mr. Trump ever did his own grocery shopping.

    “No,” Mr. Barrack said in a text complete with a smiley face emoji. Mr. Barrack, a financier, did not respond to a follow-up question about how he got his own groceries.

    Mr. Catsimatidis said that he knew Mr. Trump as a homebody who preferred to host associates in the comfort of a Trump Tower boardroom rather than go out to dinner. When he did dine out, Mr. Catsimatidis said, Mr. Trump was often in the company of one or two bodyguards, perhaps making him too conspicuous for the express lane at Whole Foods on 57th Street between Second and Third Avenues, four blocks from Trump Tower.

    Mr. Trump has, at the very least, shown that he knows his way around a shopping cart. Last December, the president was photographed as he nudged a cart around a food distribution center in Utah, pointing at his bounty with a “can you believe this” look on his face and a grin before setting off through the facility.

    “It’s good stuff,” he said as he began his journey.

    One of his handlers suggested he add a five-pound bag of potatoes to his cart: “These?” Mr. Trump asked of the potatoes, looking around for reassurance before giving no one in particular a thumbs up.

    He also picked up and examined a can of food, holding it up and rotating it in his hands, seemingly fascinated.

    Those who have studied Mr. Trump over the years were not willing to let him get away with the grocery gaffe so easily: “Donald Trump is 72 years old,” Tim O’Brien, a journalist who wrote a book about Mr. Trump, wrote on Twitter, “and he hasn’t bought his own groceries in 72 years.”

    But the scrutiny surrounding the president’s grocery habits did not seem to faze Mr. Trump or aides in his White House, who have learned that Mr. Trump is immune to criticism from supporters on habits that would seem out of touch for anyone else. Mr. Trump has eaten pizza and Kentucky Fried Chicken with a fork and has tweeted a photograph of himself grinning over a “taco bowl” on Cinco de Mayo from his office in Trump Tower.

    “I love Hispanics!” he wrote.

    By now, the president and his aides know how to barrel forward by focusing on what Trump supporters care about: a wall, a job — maybe a space force.

    On Wednesday, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the White House press secretary, answered several questions on the topic by criticizing the news media for asking.

    “I’m not sure,” Ms. Sanders told reporters when asked about the last time Mr. Trump had been to a grocery store. “I’m not sure why that matters, either.”

    Ms. Sanders, when pressed, said that the president had been referring to buying beer and wine. (The president has said he does not partake in either vice.)

    “He’s not saying every time he went in, he said when you go to the grocery store,” Ms. Sanders said, when she was pressed a third time. “I’m pretty sure that everybody in here who’s been to a grocery store that’s purchased beer or wine has probably had to show their ID. If they didn’t, then that’s probably a problem with the grocery store.”

    Presumably an expert in all things regarding the checkout lane, Mr. Catsimatidis, the owner of Gristedes, did not see why critics were seizing on the president’s assertion that an ID was needed to buy groceries.

    “You need a photo ID to buy groceries if you’re using a credit card or if you want to use a check,” Mr. Catsimatidis said. “Doesn’t that sound logical?”

    Past presidents have also faced charges of out-of-touch, knife-and-fork elitism.

    President George Bush was teased for not knowing how to work a grocery store scanner — in his defense he was actually marveling over the newfangled technology — during his failed campaign for re-election in 1992. President Barack Obama was once heckled by Sean Hannity, Mr. Trump’s favorite human megaphone, for ordering Dijon mustard (too fancy!) on a cheeseburger. Even Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s current personal lawyer who once had Oval Office ambitions, made headlines in 2007 when it was clear he had no idea how much a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk might cost a consumer.

    Aside from his comment about grocery stores, Mr. Trump made several other misleading comments on Tuesday in Tampa, Fla.

    He falsely ranked the tax cuts signed into law in December as “bigger than anything ever in our country.” (Several rank higher.)

    He falsely claimed that the United States Steel Corporation had announced the opening of seven new plants, when the company has not announced a single new plant opening. And he falsely accused Democrats of wanting open borders. (Most of the party supports border security measures.)

    If they noticed, the president’s supporters did not seem to mind.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #178
    Haulin ass shiningbrow's Avatar
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    With so much winning, who cares if he shops for groceries? Certainly not his supporters, many of whom are fully familiar with the self check out at WalMart Supercenters. I do remember Bush the elder appearing like a total n00b at a grocery store when he expressed fascination for the digital scanner that recorded the prices of items via bar codes. The press had a field day with that. The long and short of it is that most people who can afford to run for president have amassed huge personal fortunes, either via inheritance (like Trump) or via some brilliant business maneuverings (Mitt Romney), thereby obviating the need to shop for one's own groceries.
    "When the subway jerks, it's the fixed stars that throw you down."

  • #179
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Yeah, but previous presidents were marginally smart enough not to spray the information everywhere.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #180
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    So don't tell me the Left is committing more acts of violence then the Right. Neither extreme side is full of puppies and lollypops, but the right has more under it's belt then the left thank you very much.
    I'm not sure where you go for news or discussion but I travel in a lot of circles. I have had accounts on places like The Daily Stormer, for instance, and The_Donald, and Kotakuinaction and 4chant, etc. I read at least one story a day from an alt-right source like Breitbart, Daily Caller, Daily Wire (seriously, what's the right's obsession with the word 'daily'?), The Drudge Report, et al. and a few stories from Fox News just to sweeten the pot. I do this because I need to be reminded of how utterly insane these fuckwits actually are, but also to understand their rhetoric and so that I can recognise it when it's parroted by idiots.

    nail bunny, MrDumperson, and others constantly spout the very same bullshit that is repeated, ad nauseum, in these pits of filth and stupidity. And man, oh man, do they hate the left. Socialism is like a poison-word to them that they recoil from and want to throw fire at. Healthcare for all is EVIL. Obama is the living incarnation of Satan. It goes on and on. A lot say that they're joking, but the thing is, enough of them take it seriously that it gets repeated over and over and over until a significant majority of them actually believe this stuff.

    And if you're comparing the right to the left... I mean, I believe in political jiu-jitsu, the art of non-violent protest, and I abhor the fact that Osama Bin Laden was so cheerfully dismembered, despite how vile a creature he was, and there are violent people on the left who would celebrate Trump's death, just as they did with Osamas and Saddam's, some of whom would even advocate for hanging, or attempt an assassination themselves (not that they'd ever have the brains or ability) if they got a chance, but compared to the right? Holy shit, it's like comparing the Sun to Venus and saying that they burn equally as hot.

    The right is utterly saturated with the genuinely psychotic, while the left merely has a light smattering on the fringes. And anyone who tells you otherwise? Well, watch for the language they use; decrying Soros, blaming Hillary, citing emails, etc. these are some of the more common ones that are easy to spot, but there are a whole lot more and they always seem to be reinventing new ways to be putrid bigots: case in point, half of the people posting to this board.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
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    I'm mostly with Spoony.

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