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Thread: Medicare for all

  1. #46
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
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    Sure. I don't favor the bill by the way, but I can explain some upside.

    First, it eliminates penalties for not having an "approved" plan. This means my family's current plan can go back to what it was several years ago, which excluded several "mandated" health care elements that we do not need due to age or situation. Which would likely mean it will cost us less for the same services we're currently using.

    Second it would give us the option of buying an inexpensive catastrophic plan and use pay-as-you-go urgent care and non-urgent care for routine treatments, which is not currently allowed.

    Third, it would end the current tax on our health savings account, and allow us to contribute more to our health savings account. Which means we might actually use the friggen account finally.

    Forth, it MIGHT allow California to pay subsidies based on our actual cost of living in this state rather than the standard nationwide costs of living which were never realistic for our state. Which could potentially mean for example my wife and kid would get subsidies.

    I still don't like the new plan. It screws the families of some of our friends, and in particular one with a very disabled child, and I don't support that even though that same plan benefits my family. But, those are "upsides" of the new plan at least.

    To be fair, you really can't count on any of those things as CA might just keep all of them in it's plan (except the HSAs, I understand that's being hardcoded, which belies the bullshit fake Federalism the bill is trying to use as a fig leaf) or make costs and restrictions even more stringent. I heard today that the CA legislature and Gov Brown are saying they'll enact a CA single payer plan if the bill passes. That would be an interesting clusterfuck. Not saying it will fail, although I believe it will, what with the CA legislature being the ones to implement it and they're general dissociation with reality, but even if it doesn't the demographic surges that will accompany a CA only single payer plan would be chaotic at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

 

  • #47
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
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    I heard today that the CA legislature and Gov Brown are saying they'll enact a CA single payer plan if the bill passes.
    Hop on in, this rabbit hole is deep.

  • #48
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
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    ... but even if it doesn't the demographic surges that will accompany a CA only single payer plan would be chaotic at best.
    I am utterly fascinated by the idea that California would provide such a plan, and the havoc that would ensure.

  • #49
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    To be fair, you really can't count on any of those things as CA might just keep all of them in it's plan (except the HSAs, I understand that's being hardcoded, which belies the bullshit fake Federalism the bill is trying to use as a fig leaf) or make costs and restrictions even more stringent. I heard today that the CA legislature and Gov Brown are saying they'll enact a CA single payer plan if the bill passes. That would be an interesting clusterfuck. Not saying it will fail, although I believe it will, what with the CA legislature being the ones to implement it and they're general dissociation with reality, but even if it doesn't the demographic surges that will accompany a CA only single payer plan would be chaotic at best.
    Yes they are trying hard to pass single payer here anyway. But as always the devil is in the details and while the state is 100% democratic controlled we have all flavors of democrats and sometimes those details cause serious rifts within the party. Plus we have a congressperson being recalled right now, and if it succeeds the democrats will lose their super majority which means nothing can be hardcoded in the state constitution without a republican. Which isn't happening with health insurance.

    Regardless, I checked, and by all estimates I'd actually pay less with single payer here. So bring it on! I am one of the rare few who actually pays the full sum for individual non-marketplace insurance for all three members of our family. All estimates put it at a lower percentage of our income for all the taxes involved than we currently pay for it.

    It's all the people getting health care through their employers who will suddenly be majorly fucked as they discover just how much this shit really costs. I don't know how the unions are going to react to an income and payroll tax on everyone to pay for what they negotiated to be included in benefits for their members. It would be damn hard to try and exempt union members from the taxes, since between public employee unions and standard unions, we actually have quite a lot of union employees in this state. Exempting them would result in way too high a tax on the rest and a revolt in places like silicon valley. Should be interesting to watch the democratic factions eat their own.
    Last edited by Mistwell; September 21st, 2017 at 02:13 AM.
    I like hats.

  • #50
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhidu View Post
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    I am utterly fascinated by the idea that California would provide such a plan, and the havoc that would ensure.
    Like watching a trainwreck, really. You know it's going to be bad, you just don't know how the bad's gonna play out and there's this slim possibility everyone will end up okay.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #51
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Yes they are trying hard to pass single payer here anyway. But as always the devil is in the details and while the state is 100% democratic controlled we have all flavors of democrats and sometimes those details cause serious rifts within the party. Plus we have a congressperson being recalled right now, and if it succeeds the democrats will lose their super majority which means nothing can be hardcoded in the state constitution without a republican. Which isn't happening with health insurance.

    Regardless, I checked, and by all estimates I'd actually pay less with single payer here. So bring it on! I am one of the rare few who actually pays the full sum for individual non-marketplace insurance for all three members of our family. All estimates put it at a lower percentage of our income for all the taxes involved than we currently pay for it.

    It's all the people getting health care through their employers who will suddenly be majorly fucked as they discover just how much this shit really costs. I don't know how the unions are going to react to an income and payroll tax on everyone to pay for what they negotiated to be included in benefits for their members. It would be damn hard to try and exempt union members from the taxes, since between public employee unions and standard unions, we actually have quite a lot of union employees in this state. Exempting them would result in way too high a tax on the rest and a revolt in places like silicon valley. Should be interesting to watch the democratic factions eat their own.
    Sounds like you're currently a big loser in the current scheme, so, yeah, just about anything else would be better for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    I think ovi's right.

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