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Thread: Mearls introduces optional "The Greyhawk Initiative" to 5e

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    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Mearls introduces optional "The Greyhawk Initiative" to 5e

    I liked this new optional initiative system quite a lot, on initial read, and look forward to trying it out.

    The PDF:

    http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/do...Initiative.pdf

    The video of him talking about it (which I found worth watching):

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  • #2
    I can't believe it's an admin COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Bront's Avatar
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    Biggest initial problem I see after a quick glance is if I don't roll to move and then find I have to when it gets to my turn.

    Looks mildly interesting.

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    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bront View Post
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    Biggest initial problem I see after a quick glance is if I don't roll to move and then find I have to when it gets to my turn.

    Looks mildly interesting.
    I dislike the whole ranged goes faster than melee. Like ranged combat in 5e needs /more/ of a boost.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

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    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
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    I dislike the whole ranged goes faster than melee. Like ranged combat in 5e needs /more/ of a boost.
    Turns out, once you drill down further, it's pretty much a wash for ranged combat:

    1. You no longer get your Dex bonus to initiative. Ranged attackers had the best Dex bonus and after some math nerds worked it out, it seemed to average a mere 7% or so benefit to the ranged attacker for initiative rather than what it initially looks like.
    2. Foes starting out behind cover really messes with the ranged attacker now. Without being able to ready an action the foes can now rush the ranged attacker from cover on the ranged attackers turn without concern that the ranged attacker will have a ready action to shoot them, and in order to go first, the ranged attacker must continue to just stand in place, exposed to attacks from the opposing side, instead of moving in and out of cover.

    Seems like it's essentially a wash for the ranged attacker and not a benefit, but it's definitely a different dynamic for combat.
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    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
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    Turns out, once you drill down further, it's pretty much a wash for ranged combat:

    1. You no longer get your Dex bonus to initiative. Ranged attackers had the best Dex bonus and after some math nerds worked it out, it seemed to average a mere 7% or so benefit to the ranged attacker for initiative rather than what it initially looks like.
    2. Foes starting out behind cover really messes with the ranged attacker now. Without being able to ready an action the foes can now rush the ranged attacker from cover on the ranged attackers turn without concern that the ranged attacker will have a ready action to shoot them, and in order to go first, the ranged attacker must continue to just stand in place, exposed to attacks from the opposing side, instead of moving in and out of cover.

    Seems like it's essentially a wash for the ranged attacker and not a benefit, but it's definitely a different dynamic for combat.
    Oh, hey, if the bad guys are within charging range and start in full cover, it doesn't work out so well for the ranged guy! Really? That narrow special case is the counter? Your first point is a wash, the advantage is still to the ranged guys either in DEX to initiative or rolling a much smaller die (and not having to move).

    The changes to the combat engine in 5e shifted strongly toward ranged combat, to the point it's a better choice in the basic game. Add feats, and it's even better, drawing to parity with polearm master great weapon master in melee and exceeding it everywhere else with no disadvantages for being in melee (similar AC, similar hitpoints, no wasted attacks, better DEX save....)

    Now, this isn't a huge problem -- most might not even notice it, especially if they don't play with people that like to optimize to even a moderate degree. But it is something that shouldn't be given even more advantages, and, frankly, Merls should know better. There's zero reason to favor ranged attacks as faster. There's nothing about ranged attacks that make it faster to pull, nock, aim, and fire a bow faster than swinging a sword or stabbing with a spear or dagger. It's unnecessary.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

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    Love and Hate leopold's Avatar
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    Read it. Nope. Too complicated. Breaks the KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID rule. I don't need to have a damn math degree or force indecisive PC's to do something waiting on them to make this work. I want to breeze through combat not drag it out longer.
    Failed RPG Writer.

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    I will be warm! COMMUNITY SUPPORTER guyjin's Avatar
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    I have a hard time believing his statement that it works well for large groups. I used to play in a large group, and so the DM asked us to plan our actions in advance to keep the game going. and it was super frustrating, for both me and the DM, when someone did something that prevented my planned action (like blocking my shot) and I suddenly had to come up with something else in a hurry. If he's solving that problem with "you lose it", it's gonna be even worse.

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    COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guyjin View Post
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    I have a hard time believing his statement that it works well for large groups. I used to play in a large group, and so the DM asked us to plan our actions in advance to keep the game going. and it was super frustrating, for both me and the DM, when someone did something that prevented my planned action (like blocking my shot) and I suddenly had to come up with something else in a hurry. If he's solving that problem with "you lose it", it's gonna be even worse.
    Herein lies the problem with all of you snot nosed whining little shits.

    Jesus Christ, plan better or lose you turn.

    Fucking sniveling little entitled bitches..."oh no...I lost my deferred action I held from three rounds ago!"

    what.the.fuck.

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    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    If faced with this system, I'd simply elect to do everything every round, go last, and keep my options open.

    But frankly, this system seems like "speed factors and segments, part II" except you don't break up your attacks and movements. That similarity is not a good thing.

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    %0 correct Scarbonac's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's kinda "speed factors", "weapon v. armor type", "1e pummeling and grappling" level of extra complication as far as I can tell.
    "1 out of 3 Trump supporters is as stupid as the other 2"

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    consequences 3catcircus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
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    Herein lies the problem with all of you snot nosed whining little shits.

    Jesus Christ, plan better or lose you turn.

    Fucking sniveling little entitled bitches..."oh no...I lost my deferred action I held from three rounds ago!"

    what.the.fuck.

    This, kind of.

    I like the different dice for different types of actions. I think the dex bonus should still apply. I'm just not sure if it would work given most of today's players' inability to deal with any type of rpg that doesn't reward munchkiny min-maxing.

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    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
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    Mearls introduces optional "The Greyhawk Initiative" to 5e
    Here I was hoping they were announcing that Greyhwak would be the default game setting going forward and that Forgotten Realms was being consigned to the rubbish heap for all eternity.
    Hop on in, this rabbit hole is deep.

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    Fascinating COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Mustrum_Ridcully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nail bunny View Post
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    Here I was hoping they were announcing that Greyhwak would be the default game setting going forward and that Forgotten Realms was being consigned to the rubbish heap for all eternity.
    Meh. The Points of Light Nerath campaign setting is the best generic campaign setting.

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    Love and Hate leopold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully View Post
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    Meh. The Points of Light Nerath campaign setting is the best generic campaign setting.

    Is this Edena's homeworld?
    Failed RPG Writer.

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    Fascinating COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Mustrum_Ridcully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leopold View Post
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    Is this Edena's homeworld?
    I believe Edena is in another "better place".

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