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Thread: The Russian Trump Thread

  1. #16
    Not a pony! GreyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedWick View Post
    Full quote, in the interest of discussing apples to apples:



    To me, that sounds like speculation.
    I posted it because it was more specific about what Comey was talking about on Monday. That's all.

    Clearly the FBI and others believe there are more than enough fumes here to assume that shit took place.

    Whether or not it's speculation (in a forum FULL of speculation), there's nothing wrong with speculating especially when you add all this:

    The FBI cannot yet prove that collusion took place, but the information suggesting collusion is now a large focus of the investigation, the officials said.
    The FBI has already been investigating four former Trump campaign associates -- Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort, Roger Stone and Carter Page -- for contacts with Russians known to US intelligence. All four have denied improper contacts and CNN has not confirmed any of them are the subjects of the information the FBI is reviewing.

    One of the obstacles the sources say the FBI now faces in finding conclusive intelligence is that communications between Trump's associates and Russians have ceased in recent months given the public focus on Russia's alleged ties to the Trump campaign. Some Russian officials have also changed their methods of communications, making monitoring more difficult, the officials said.
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  • #17
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyOne View Post
    I posted it because it was more specific about what Comey was talking about on Monday. That's all.
    You also ignored the weasel word of "appears" right on the middle of the quote. So... yeah. You're seeing what you want see, a whole lot of smoke and praying it means fire.
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  • #18
    Not a pony! GreyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nail bunny View Post
    You also ignored the weasel word of "appears" right on the middle of the quote. So... yeah. You're seeing what you want see, a whole lot of smoke and praying it means fire.
    Nah. You're ignoring what you want to ignore.

    Just checking: You believe there should be both a special prosecutor and an independent, bipartisan commission with subpoena power to conduct a full investigation of the Trump campaign’s connections with Russian intelligence, right?

    Especially after this dogshit:

    House Intelligence Chair Attempts To Clean Up Mess After Alleging Trump Team Was Spied On

    Second question: You also believe the free and independent media must be allowed to also get to the bottom of this, beyond the findings of this commission, right?
    Last edited by GreyOne; March 23rd, 2017 at 07:08 PM.
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  • #19
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    Republicans starting to cover for Trump

    Instead of using the lessons of the Benghazi attack to reinforce the U.S. commitment to diplomacy, some Republicans sought to turn the tragedy into a political blame game, as House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy eventually acknowledged. At the time of the attack, Obama’s reelection campaign was entering its final months and his presumptive Democratic successor, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, was accused of personally ignoring security requests that might have saved the State Department facility.

    Ultimately, the Select Committee concluded that there was no conspiracy orchestrated from the White House to minimize the impact of Benghazi on Obama’s counterterrorism record. The military did its job with the resources and forces available at the time. There was no “stand down” order directed from Washington despite Hollywood’s portrayal of the fog of war in the Michael Bay directed film 13 Hours. The lack of security at a temporary State Department facility had already been examined thoroughly by an Accountability Review Board and procedures were underway to prevent such deficiencies from recurring. And months before the Select Committee issued its the report, the Obama administration ordered the deployment of specially trained forces who could respond more quickly to embassies under duress.


    Nevertheless, the Benghazi Select Committee had far-reaching consequences. For four years, the American public heard relentless attacks against the State Department and criticism of its competence and purpose. While many inside the beltway saw the mission in Libya as an example of the bravery demonstrated by American diplomats who serve in the most dangerous of circumstances, much of the country took the constant barrage against the State Department’s function and personnel as cause for questioning America’s role in the world.

    If bipartisan support for the military and the use of force started to fray during the bloody insurgency against American forces in Iraq’s Anbar Province in 2004, the country’s skepticism about the State Department and America’s diplomatic role in the world endured a similar body blow after Benghazi. No wonder President Trump has proposed a 28 percent budget cut to the State Department and his secretary of state has so far demonstrated little interest in promoting the institution or managing one of the most talented workforces in the federal government.

    Monday’s House Intelligence Committee hearing featuring FBI Director James Comey and NSA Director Mike Rogers reinforced how a bipartisan congressional investigation will be impossible in the hyper-politicized environment of 2017. Even when presented with the extraordinary fact that the FBI is investigating Trump campaign associates, Republican members chose to parrot the White House’s condemnation of leaks rather than to explore the nature of the hacking and how to prevent it in the future. Leading this line of questioning was none other than Representative Trey Gowdy of South Carolina, the former Chairman of the Select Committee on Benghazi.


    At the end of the hearing, Gowdy and Chairman Devin Nunes urged Comey to conclude the FBI’s investigation as soon as possible because the president and his associates now have a cloud hanging over them. Gowdy took two-and-a-half years to complete the Benghazi inquiry. Similarly, Nunes demonstrated he is incapable of leading a true investigation when he ran to the White House on Wednesday to share "information" he had acquired regarding apparent surveillance of Trump campaign officials rather than discussing it within his committee, his Senate counterparts, or congressional leadership.
    Last edited by GreyOne; March 23rd, 2017 at 08:43 PM.
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  • #20
    Quote Originally Posted by nail bunny View Post
    You also ignored the weasel word of "appears" right on the middle of the quote. So... yeah. You're seeing what you want see, a whole lot of smoke and praying it means fire.
    Nuance is that deleterious to you that you need to call it "weasel"?
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  • #21
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guyjin View Post
    why do we need yet another trump thread? there are plenty already.
    I think of this like the Warlord topics at EnWorld.
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  • #22
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyOne View Post
    Because the Russian thing is the big thing.
    Until the FBI says they have found no collusion concerning the election nor illegal actions. And then the Dems will move on to the next Benghazi/Travelgate/whatever. That's how this works these days (and by "these days" I mean "since roughly Bill Clinton was President"). There must always be a "big thing".
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  • #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedWick View Post
    To me, that sounds like speculation.
    You do know how the justice system works, right? They are officials and they can't make absolute statements until a formal charge has been laid. So even if the evidence was concrete and they were about to lay charges, they would still have to use that same language.
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  • #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    Until the FBI says they have found no collusion concerning the election nor illegal actions. And then the Dems will move on to the next Benghazi/Travelgate/whatever. That's how this works these days (and by "these days" I mean "since roughly Bill Clinton was President"). There must always be a "big thing".
    Ah the "politics as usual" defense. Is that what you said when Benghazi became the Republican clown car ride? Are you saying they won't find evidence of collusion? Is that speculation?

    According to Schiff: "Asked to explain his comments earlier in the week when he said there was more than just "circumstantial evidence of collusion," Schiff said, "I do think that it's appropriate to say that it's the kind of evidence that you would submit to a grand jury at the beginning of an investigation."
    GreyOne - "At what point do enough innocent bodies stack up where you decide your Second Amendment isn't worth the paper required to wipe a medium-sized bowel movement?"

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  • #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    I think of this like the Warlord topics at EnWorld.
    Yeah, cause the absence of the Warlord in 5e and Russia's involvement in the US presidential elections are the same.
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  • #26
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyOne View Post
    Ah the "politics as usual" defense.
    Defense?

    No dude. It just is our reality. The fact that there is always a "big thing" is not a defense. A lot of those scandals since Bill Clinton were real (though often overblown). Some were not. But, there is always a "big thing" versus whoever is President. Are you denying that?

    Is that what you said when Benghazi became the Republican clown car ride?
    Ah see you DO get it. And yes, absolutely that is my point. Glad you agree.

    Are you saying they won't find evidence of collusion? Is that speculation?
    I am saying I doubt they will find evidence of collusion. Right now, it's speculation that there was collusion. Are you accusing me of speculating about your speculation? Regardless, I am not saying "don't look". We should look. I just bemoan the "always a big thing" standard of politics which our nation has been permanently in since basically Bill Clinton. Republicans did it to Bill, then Democrats did it to W. Bush, then Republicans did it to Obama, and now Democrats are doing it to Trump. I am not saying it's unjustified, I am just saying it is in fact a thing.

    According to Schiff: "Asked to explain his comments earlier in the week when he said there was more than just "circumstantial evidence of collusion," Schiff said, "I do think that it's appropriate to say that it's the kind of evidence that you would submit to a grand jury at the beginning of an investigation."
    Hold your breath. The smoking gun on Benghazi will be released any day now. Any day. Or, "The Russians hacked our election" evidence that Schiff previously promised (until Tucker Carlson called him out on it and he had to backtrack) will be here any day now.

    Not that I don't get why you're caught up in the "big thing" of the day. In fact, I can't judge you for being caught up in the "big thing" and expecting earthshaking evidence any day now. I've been there. Maybe this will be the one where something is actually found. But...if you hold your breath, remember it's OK to let it out again once you get close to passing out. Sometimes when politicians claim to have secret proof of wrongdoing of their political foes and that they will release it at the appropriate time and place...they don't.

    Last edited by Mistwell; March 24th, 2017 at 12:09 AM.
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  • #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    Defense?

    No dude. It just is our reality. The fact that there is always a "big thing" is not a defense. A lot of those scandals since Bill Clinton were real (though often overblown). Some were not. But, there is always a "big thing" versus whoever is President. Are you denying that?



    Ah see you DO get it. And yes, absolutely that is my point. Glad you agree.



    I am saying I doubt they will find evidence of collusion. Right now, it's speculation that there was collusion. Are you accusing me of speculating about your speculation? Regardless, I am not saying "don't look". We should look. I just bemoan the "always a big thing" standard of politics which our nation has been permanently in since basically Bill Clinton. Republicans did it to Bill, then Democrats did it to W. Bush, then Republicans did it to Obama, and now Democrats are doing it to Trump. I am not saying it's unjustified, I am just saying it is in fact a thing.



    Hold your breath. The smoking gun on Benghazi will be released any day now. Any day.

    Not that I don't get why you're caught up in the "big thing" of the day. In fact, I can't judge you for being caught up in the "big thing" and expecting earthshaking evidence any day now. I've been there. Maybe this will be the one where something is actually found. But...if you hold your breath, remember it's OK to let it out again once you get close to passing out.
    Did you make a life change in your posting habits? This post has me all bamboozled in how to react.
    GreyOne - "At what point do enough innocent bodies stack up where you decide your Second Amendment isn't worth the paper required to wipe a medium-sized bowel movement?"

    Ovinomancer - "As for your questions, more."

  • #28
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    BTW another Congress-critter claims he has bombshell secret information proving the Obama administration spied on the Trump transition team. Which he will, I am sure, release "at the appropriate time and place". Which I expect is...never.

    Congresspersons Schiff and Nunes should just get a room already. To, you know, trade bombshell secrets at the appropriate time and place.
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  • #29
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyOne View Post
    Nah. You're ignoring what you want to ignore.
    Yeah, that's mostly your histrionics that I'm ignoring.

    Just checking: You believe there should be both a special prosecutor and an independent, bipartisan commission with subpoena power to conduct a full investigation of the Trump campaign’s connections with Russian intelligence, right?
    Yup. Irrespective of anything you deem "dogshit". Particularly if it's from the Huffpost.


    Second question: You also believe the free and independent media must be allowed to also get to the bottom of this, beyond the findings of this commission, right?
    Two things:

    1 - We don't have one of those. The media is either in someone's pocket or so ideologically entrenched I don't trust them to accurately report on the color of the sky.

    And 2 - No, they have no rights to jack shit nor do I expect them to ever get to the bottom of anything. Ever.
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  • #30
    Redwick, re-imagined RedWick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kzach View Post
    You do know how the justice system works, right? They are officials and they can't make absolute statements until a formal charge has been laid. So even if the evidence was concrete and they were about to lay charges, they would still have to use that same language.
    You misunderstand. I'm not making an argument about the justice system. My complaint is that the media, can put up stories filled with endless speculation as news, and I contend that it's not news, it's gossip. Fun to talk about maybe, but I don't expect to come away any the wiser afterward.

    It's like Comey coming out in the days before the election and saying "We're reopening the Clinton case. There may or may not be something there." And there wasn't, but the story that came out in the media sure made it seem like there was. Do you get my argument?
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