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Thread: The Russian Trump Thread

  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Spoony View Post
    Agreed, but we've known about this text since last year when Mueller fired these two assclowns over it. And you're right, it's never going away.
    Not to be too pedantic about it....

    a) We didn't know about it. And when I say "we", I mean including congress...who are livid over this. They have been asking for it for over a year, and every time the last part, the response by Strzok, was redacted. Now why it was redacted, I have no idea. I'm not in the FBI, but you'd have to really stretch to explain a rational reason why that had to be redacted.

    b) Mueller didn't fire them. It is true they are no longer on the team doing the Russian Interference investigation, but both were simply demoted. Page resigned. Strozk still works in the HR department. How that is possible, I have no idea.
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  • #602
    Because you can't fire someone for having a personal political opinion, expressed via a private conversation, with a close personal associate? Granted, using their FBI phones for said conversation was stupid, and the thoughts expressed were stupid and foolish, and certainly look terrible. If you can find me any action that Strzok took to back up his "we'll stop it," then you have my support for firing him, and TBH if he were fired now, it wouldn't shake me up too much. It was a serious lapse in judgement.
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  • #603
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    Because you can't fire someone for having a personal political opinion, expressed via a private conversation, with a close personal associate? Granted, using their FBI phones for said conversation was stupid, and the thoughts expressed were stupid and foolish, and certainly look terrible. If you can find me any action that Strzok took to back up his "we'll stop it," then you have my support for firing him, and TBH if he were fired now, it wouldn't shake me up too much. It was a serious lapse in judgement.
    If the stated political opinion deals with your current job duties, then, yes, you can be fired. This is true even if the statement is entirely private (no government assets at all). I'm a fervent 1A defender, and, in this case, the government is allowed the same freedoms as private employers if the speech directly influences job performance. Teachers can't speak to their political beliefs in class, for instance. The FBI agents are violating FBI policy AND speaking in ways that are detrimental to performance. This is open and shut against the agents.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #604

  • #605
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    Because you can't fire someone for having a personal political opinion, expressed via a private conversation, with a close personal associate? Granted, using their FBI phones for said conversation was stupid, and the thoughts expressed were stupid and foolish, and certainly look terrible. If you can find me any action that Strzok took to back up his "we'll stop it," then you have my support for firing him, and TBH if he were fired now, it wouldn't shake me up too much. It was a serious lapse in judgement.
    It all depends on how you want to interpret a number of events.

    Do you think that stated, explicit political opinion affected his decision to prioritize the Russia Interference investigation? Do you think that, and others that came to light ("viva la resistance", for example) played any part in FBI agents pretty much agreeing Clinton's answers in her interview for the email thing strained credulity...and yet no charges?

    I can find actions that Strzok, and others, took that perfectly align with stated political goals/beliefs. Will there be any hard proof? Why would there be? Who writes down, "I'm prioritizing this investigation because I have to stop Trump from becoming president."

    I don't like "Deep State" conspiracy crap. But you don't have to dig far on this one. If there were a special prosecutor from outside the agency investigating this and the parties were the other way around, Dems would be screaming bloody murder. How do I know? Well...in a strange coincidence....
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  • #606
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    Feanor, when I say, "Fired" I mean they where removed from the special counsel's team, not fired entirely from the FBI.

  • #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    Because you can't fire someone for having a personal political opinion, expressed via a private conversation, with a close personal associate? Granted, using their FBI phones for said conversation was stupid, and the thoughts expressed were stupid and foolish, and certainly look terrible. If you can find me any action that Strzok took to back up his "we'll stop it," then you have my support for firing him, and TBH if he were fired now, it wouldn't shake me up too much. It was a serious lapse in judgement.
    So you're just going to pretend you didn't call this issue a whataboutism when it clearly is about this topic?
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  • #608
    Manafort pleads. Now we'll start seeing what's really up. Even if this plea doesn't involve cooperation - that has not been announced one way or the other - he can't take the fifth if he gets called before the grand jury.

    Further thoughts on cooperation: if Mueller takes this deal without cooperation, it can mean one of two things, I think: there really isn't any there there, and Mueller knows it; or, there is a there there, but Mueller already knows all of it, and doesn't need Manafort to confirm any of it. Manafort also probably makes a worse witness than Gates did in Manafort's trial.
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  • #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    Manafort pleads. Now we'll start seeing what's really up. Even if this plea doesn't involve cooperation - that has not been announced one way or the other - he can't take the fifth if he gets called before the grand jury.

    Further thoughts on cooperation: if Mueller takes this deal without cooperation, it can mean one of two things, I think: there really isn't any there there, and Mueller knows it; or, there is a there there, but Mueller already knows all of it, and doesn't need Manafort to confirm any of it. Manafort also probably makes a worse witness than Gates did in Manafort's trial.
    It's a killer deal for Manafort, though. He gets a cap of 10 years max (which is about what he'll get in sentencing fir his convictions) AND gets to serve time concurrently. Essentially, Manafort doesn't get any more jailtime, and he's already a felon. The only thing interesting here is if cooperation is on the table. I don't think it is because that would delay sentencing and therefore limit tge benefit of tge deal for Manafort. This looks like a sweet deal for Manafort and a way to rack up another charge for Mueller. Both sides win.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #610
    Latest word is cooperation is involved. Manafort is forfeiting quite a bit of money as well, it seems. Things are about to get really interesting. If I'm Don Jr., I am not very happy right now. Maybe Jared too. And of course Don Sr will go through the roof, but he does that on a daily basis.
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  • #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    Latest word is cooperation is involved. Manafort is forfeiting quite a bit of money as well, it seems. Things are about to get really interesting. If I'm Don Jr., I am not very happy right now. Maybe Jared too. And of course Don Sr will go through the roof, but he does that on a daily basis.
    Yeah, though I don't think Manafort has anything significant -- we'd have heard something by now.

    [side rant]
    A bit from that piece:

    Legal experts quickly spun the deal as a win for all the parties involved. Manafort gets a potentially shorter sentence and lessens his legal bills. Trump avoids several weeks of bad headlines ahead of the midterm elections about his corrupt former campaign aide. And Mueller — faced with Trump's constant claims that his probe is a "witch hunt" — gets to show yet again that his charges are not fabricated and can now divert resources to other elements of his Russia probe.
    Fucking A, but that bold bit is stupid. People plead guilty to fabricated charges all the time, because the alternative is even worse. I don't happen to believe these particular charges are fabricated -- Manafort did a dumb talking to witnesses pre-trial -- but that statement is still just fucking clueless about how the "justice" system works.
    [/side rant]
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #612
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    Trump is just Putin's little bitch.

  • #613
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    It was Chris Christie or Mike Pence.

    I used to be a Christie guy. But, I suspect Pence has worked out better as VP than Christie would have.
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  • #614
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    They're both terrible.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #615
    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
    but that statement is still just fucking clueless about how the "justice" system works.
    Except he isn't talking about the justice system. He is only talking about Mueller's probe, M. Clueless.
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