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  1. #1
    Girls Gone Spoony! Spoony's Avatar
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    For Xyxxox

    Some cold water on the fantasy that Clinton stood a better chance than Sanders.



    If Trump's dumb ass is to be limited to 1 term's worth of damage all Democrats must understand what happened and cut the neo-liberal "working stiffs don't matter anymore" bullshit.
    Last edited by Spoony; January 17th, 2017 at 11:04 AM.

 

  • #2
    She appealed to the white working class by proposing to maintain the ACA, developing green energies (and the jobs that come with them) and infrastruture investments. And to some extent it worked. She got by far the most votes. However, the Electoral College created an undemocratic disruption in that result.
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  • #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Yablo View Post
    She appealed to the white working class by proposing to maintain the ACA, developing green energies (and the jobs that come with them) and infrastruture investments. And to some extent it worked. She got by far the most votes. However, the Electoral College created an undemocratic disruption in that result.
    The "Popular vote" will always be irrelevant as long as the Electoral College exists. The"popular vote" cannot truly measure popularity until the college is gone.

  • #4
    toxic Xyxox's Avatar
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    Sanders lost to her, she lost the EC to Trump. Case closed.
    Trump is just Putin's little bitch.

  • #5
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyxox View Post
    Sanders lost to her, she lost the EC to Trump. Case closed.
    Sanders lost to the DNC. At least don't lie about it.
    I wouldn't even smirk at you.

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    toxic Xyxox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nail bunny View Post
    Sanders lost to the DNC. At least don't lie about it.
    Sanders lost to her, fair and square. At least don't lie about it.
    Trump is just Putin's little bitch.

  • #7
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyxox View Post
    Sanders lost to her, fair and square. At least don't lie about it.
    The process was "rigged" from the get-go, due to the superdelagates and the complicity of the media in reporting the superdelegates as Clinton's from the beginning of the Primary season. That doesn't strike me as fair (though perfectly RAW for the DNC).

    I actually blame the media more than the DNC here. I think the media is why we ended up with the horse race we did, and why we eventually ended up with a Trump presidency.

  • #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxperson View Post
    The "Popular vote" will always be irrelevant as long as the Electoral College exists. The"popular vote" cannot truly measure popularity until the college is gone.
    Once again you're missing the point, my little derpiny.

    The argument is that Clinton didn't reach voters with her message. She did, as the popular vote indicates. Her lost is due to the Electoral College, not because her message didn't go through.

    Also, we have no idea if Sanders would have won the election. It is pure speculation.
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  • #9
    toxic Xyxox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhidu View Post
    The process was "rigged" from the get-go, due to the superdelagates and the complicity of the media in reporting the superdelegates as Clinton's from the beginning of the Primary season. That doesn't strike me as fair (though perfectly RAW for the DNC).

    I actually blame the media more than the DNC here. I think the media is why we ended up with the horse race we did, and why we eventually ended up with a Trump presidency.
    So you're now blaming the Democratic Party because the person who spent 36 years tearing down the Democratic Party (all the way up until he decided he was going to crash the party) was too STUPID to understand the rules of the Democratic Party?

    Trump is just Putin's little bitch.

  • #10
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyxox View Post
    So you're now blaming the Democratic Party because the person who spent 36 years tearing down the Democratic Party (all the way up until he decided he was going to crash the party) was too STUPID to understand the rules of the Democratic Party?

    You say "superdelegates ensure outsiders can't hijack the party;" I say "superdelegates are a roadblock to changing party demographics." They do both, man - the safeguards represented by the superdelegates do exactly what they are supposed to do (block rogue elements - lord knows that the GOP could have used that this year), but as a result discourage change that percolates up due to demographics.

    I fall back to what I said earlier - the supers were RAW, but not fair. The media made things a lot worse by reporting on the supers from the beginning of the primaries, shaping public opinion that Bernie was an also ran, and skewing primary results. The media did far worse to the GOP, giving Trump free media buys.

  • #11
    toxic Xyxox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhidu View Post
    You say "superdelegates ensure outsiders can't hijack the party;" I say "superdelegates are a roadblock to changing party demographics." They do both, man - the safeguards represented by the superdelegates do exactly what they are supposed to do (block rogue elements - lord knows that the GOP could have used that this year), but as a result discourage change that percolates up due to demographics.

    I fall back to what I said earlier - the supers were RAW, but not fair. The media made things a lot worse by reporting on the supers from the beginning of the primaries, shaping public opinion that Bernie was an also ran, and skewing primary results. The media did far worse to the GOP, giving Trump free media buys.
    The Supers also reflect networking and working WITHIN the party, and a party is a private organization so the party is 100% justified in insuring that their nominee is capable of working WITHIN the party. Hillary spent more than 3 decades building relationships with elected Democrats while Sanders spent more than thirty years poisoning relationships with elected Democrats.

    Fuck his third party ass. If he wanted to be a nominee, he should have started his own fucking party and nominated himself like all third party punk assed idiots do.
    Trump is just Putin's little bitch.

  • #12
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyxox View Post
    ... and a party is a private organization so the party is 100% justified in insuring that their nominee is capable of working WITHIN the party...
    I actually agree with this, though I think that - since the party is a private organization and not truly beholden to the populace - the parties should shoulder more of the financial burden of the primaries.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXX
    Fuck his third party ass. If he wanted to be a nominee, he should have started his own fucking party and nominated himself like all third party punk assed idiots do.
    I also agree with this, or at least I would in a perfect world. In this one, the bar for 3rd party validity is so high that it's ridiculous. To make serious inroads here we'd need to change the way we tally votes to something not first-past-the-post.

    While Bernie's (and Trump's, for that matter) approach to hijacking the party apparatus was bad on it's face, it's completely understandable as to why he chose that route.

  • #13
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyxox View Post
    Sanders lost to her, fair and square. At least don't lie about it.
    Well...let's not go too far there. I agree with you in general on Sanders, but the DNC did cheat for Clinton and against Sanders. I mean come on....she got some debate questions in advance, the DNC secretly was asking the press to write stories to spin negative stories on Sanders, among other things the Wikileaks stuff revealed. I don't think that stuff made the difference in her winning, but it wasn't all fair and square.
    Last edited by Mistwell; January 17th, 2017 at 10:49 PM.
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  • #14
    toxic Xyxox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    Well...let's not go too far there. I agree with you in general on Sanders, but the DNC did cheat for Clinton and against Sanders. I mean come on....she got some debate questions in advance, the DNC secretly was asking the press to write stories to spin negative stories on Sanders, among other things the Wikileaks stuff revealed. I don't think that stuff made the difference in her winning, but it wasn't all fair and square.
    Nothing at all wrong with any of that because SANDERS IS NOT, NEVER HAS BEEN, AND NEVER WILL BE A DEMOCRAT!

    So fuck yeah, do everything you can to trash the piece of shit. They should have never let the fucker in the race to begin with. He should have been treated the same way that the Democratic Party has always treated his ilk, such as the way they treat Lyndon LaRouche!
    Trump is just Putin's little bitch.

  • #15
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyxox View Post
    Nothing at all wrong with any of that because SANDERS IS NOT, NEVER HAS BEEN, AND NEVER WILL BE A DEMOCRAT!

    So fuck yeah, do everything you can to trash the piece of shit. They should have never let the fucker in the race to begin with. He should have been treated the same way that the Democratic Party has always treated his ilk, such as the way they treat Lyndon LaRouche!
    Sanders was an officially recognized candidate in the Democratic primaries, hence a Democrat. Your all caps doesn't change your opinion into fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    I think ovi's right.

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