Thread: The Coming Rule of Trump

  1. #736
    Fascinating COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Mustrum_Ridcully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.

    The other alternative? The alternative that says our own intelligence agencies are so incompetent that they DON'T realize they are Tor node addresses? The alternative in line with the fuck up on WMD in Iraq and an asprin factory in Africa being a terrorist training camp and some of the other fuckups our intelligence agencies have had in modern times? That alternative is just to pessimistic for me. I won't buy that without proof. And it's too scary to contemplate right now. I'd much rather conclude they know damn well that report they issued is full of shit and they're doing it to placate a media that will go along with it to avoid mentioning we know because we're spying on Russia and know for sure they did it.
    I normally always assume ignorance before malovence, but with intelligence agencies, I am not so sure.

    It could very well be that it's a political decision to interpret the data like this. it seemed to me the Iraq WMDs were politically opportunistic at the time, since the Bush Adminstrationwas always ... partial to the idea of taking out Hussein and taking over Iraq. This can lead to favoring certain interpretation of data and gloss over inconsistencies.

    The only inconsistency here for my theory is: The upcoming Trump adminstration has little interest in this interpretation, since it weakens its legitimacy.

 

  • #737
    Yablo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3catcircus View Post
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    Nope. That's you projecting your own internal monologue...
    Nah. It is what you ment when you called a black man lazy for no other reason than the color of his skin.
    I am not Gary Busey.

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    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    I normally always assume ignorance before malovence, but with intelligence agencies, I am not so sure.

    It could very well be that it's a political decision to interpret the data like this. it seemed to me the Iraq WMDs were politically opportunistic at the time, since the Bush Adminstrationwas always ... partial to the idea of taking out Hussein and taking over Iraq. This can lead to favoring certain interpretation of data and gloss over inconsistencies.

    The only inconsistency here for my theory is: The upcoming Trump adminstration has little interest in this interpretation, since it weakens its legitimacy.
    And, frankly, this is my issue: this result is political. It acts to shield the current President for this election results (the Russians did it!), it acts to save face for Clinton (the Russians did it!), and it acts to delegitimize the incoming President, who Obama desperately wants to distract from dismantling his legacy (the Russians did it!).

    When an intelligence estimate is thrown together this quickly, presents shoddy evidence with a lot of "trust us", and so nicely meets a political purpose, I get skeptical. Especially when an outcome brings us into direct conflict with a nuclear power.

    Do I trust Russia? Nope. They'd do this in a heartbeat. But that doesn't mean they did, and before I sign off on supporting retaliation, I'm going to need more proof than that travesty of a report. And, yeah, it's likely we have lots of classified sources, but, again, if the goal is retaliation against Russia, we need to burn a few of those to make the case. This is important enough.

    But, it seems the real objective here is domestic politics. Because if the classified report actually has information, linking out a few dozen minor diplomsts is a joke of a response.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyxox View Post
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    Russia excels at injecting propaganda into foreign political dialogue.
    Are they better at it than other countries? I thought embedded journalists was pretty innovative at the time.

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    toxic Xyxox's Avatar
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    [top]Congress Quietly Passes New Rule Allowing House Members To Hide Records From Ethics Probes

    [top]Politicians can now shield expenditures from investigations.

    Just when you thought ethics standards couldn’t get much worse on Capitol Hill... It’s emerged that the House GOP quietly changed a rule last week to allow members to keep their records hidden from ethics or criminal investigations.

    The tweak allows politicians to conceal any information members produce — even suspicious expenditures and budgets — if the Office of Congressional Ethics or the Department of Justice investigates them for criminal activity, the Center for Responsive Politics reports.

    The change essentially makes a member of Congress the owner and sole controller of any records he or she creates, regardless of whether those documents touch on a public interest, such as use of taxpayer funds or the commission of a crime.

    “Records created, generated, or received by the congressional office of a Member … are exclusively the personal property of the individual member … and such Member … has control over such records,” the regulation states.

    The change granting records control to members was passed without much notice amid news of a plan to gut the independence of the Office of Congressional Ethics, which caused a public outcry but failed to pass.

    Under the new regulation, a lawmaker being investigated for misuse of taxpayer funds, for example, might now assert the privilege to withhold spending records from law enforcement authorities. Had that measure existed earlier, certain accounts might not have been accessible for corruption investigations that resulted in charges against members of Congress.

    “Why on earth would Congress now create barriers to investigation and subpoenas of a member’s spending records?” Center for Responsive Politics Sheila Krumholz executive director said to the Fiscal Times Monday. “This only benefits the incumbent politicians who passed this rule and those who would flout it, not the system and certainly not the public.”

    ...
    It's a small club and we ain't in it.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b099cdb0ff34eb
    Trump is just Putin's little bitch.

  • #741
    Fascinating COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Mustrum_Ridcully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    And, frankly, this is my issue: this result is political. It acts to shield the current President for this election results (the Russians did it!), it acts to save face for Clinton (the Russians did it!), and it acts to delegitimize the incoming President, who Obama desperately wants to distract from dismantling his legacy (the Russians did it!).

    When an intelligence estimate is thrown together this quickly, presents shoddy evidence with a lot of "trust us", and so nicely meets a political purpose, I get skeptical. Especially when an outcome brings us into direct conflict with a nuclear power.

    Do I trust Russia? Nope. They'd do this in a heartbeat. But that doesn't mean they did, and before I sign off on supporting retaliation, I'm going to need more proof than that travesty of a report. And, yeah, it's likely we have lots of classified sources, but, again, if the goal is retaliation against Russia, we need to burn a few of those to make the case. This is important enough.

    But, it seems the real objective here is domestic politics. Because if the classified report actually has information, linking out a few dozen minor diplomsts is a joke of a response.
    My problem is just - does the intelligence community have anything to gain here? Obama is going away, they have to deal with Trump, and he doesn't seem so keen on the Intelligence Community (and Intelligence? ). So would you actually find "accomplices"?

    The Iraq seemed a more clear case where you could see that the intellligence community has an interest in advancing it - a lot of intelligence gathering options and a good justification to bolster the involved agencies funding for new operations related to the war.

  • #742
    Aaaahh, shuutup! Kid Charlemagne's Avatar
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    So Ovi and Mistwell's argument is that nothing the intelligence agencies can be trusted ever, on any subject. No one can know anything. If Ovi wasn't in the room, with Putin, as he said (presumably in English, because Ovi probably doesn't know Russian) "awesome, we got Trump due to our awesome hacking" then no possible proof exists. And everyone in all the intelligence agencies, including the FBI (which we all know to be a den of Hillary supporters from this past election) supports the Democrats (who will be out of office in 10 days), not the Republicans (who will be their bosses for the next four years at least).

    That's all very logical.
    We've always been at war with Eastasia.
    If other people's pain didn't amuse me, I wouldn't be a GM. -barsoomcore

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    *starts slow clap*
    I am not Gary Busey.

  • #744
    consequences 3catcircus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarbonac View Post
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    How about 'NO'?




    The idea that *you* think that you have the standing, wisdom, or ability to judge another's 'content of character' is ludicrous, sad, and a little sick-making.
    Whatevs. When all is said and done, Obama's legacy will be that of a vindictive ineffectual little nothing.

  • #745
    consequences 3catcircus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yablo View Post
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    Nah. It is what you ment when you called a black man lazy for no other reason than the color of his skin.
    That you are too stupid to understand that I was pointing out someone else's opinion of his capabilities rather than throwing out racial invectives, there is no doubt. Color has nothing to do with it, but keep on shining you crazy SJW diamond...

  • #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3catcircus View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    That you are too stupid to understand that I was pointing out someone else's opinion of his capabilities rather than throwing out racial invectives, there is no doubt. Color has nothing to do with it, but keep on shining you crazy SJW diamond...
    Yes, and if you used that quote is it because you agreed enough with it.

    And your obviously dumb enough to no realize that talking about someone capabilities can reference racist stereotypes. Like black people being lazy. Now I also understand your full of rage from all the propaganda your exposed too, but take a second to think how much works it takes to graduate from Harvard, become a teacher there and later become president of the US. It isn't something a lazy person will accomplish in its life. Althought it is possible that due to the propaganda you subject yourself everyday, you think it is all rigged and is easily accessable with the right connections instead of the right connections and a lot of work.
    I am not Gary Busey.

  • #747
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    "We will have so much winning if I get elected that you may get bored with winning. Believe me.” - Trump

  • #748
    toxic Xyxox's Avatar
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    [top]Charlotte Church Shuts Down Trump Inauguration Offer In Bold Tweet

    Welsh singer Charlotte Church just became the latest musician to deny Donald Trump an Inauguration Day performance.

    Claiming that his team had recently reached out to ask her to sing during the upcoming ceremony on Jan. 20, Church responded with a cheeky announcement over Twitter.

    “A simple Internet search would show I think you’re a tyrant,” she wrote, addressing the president-elect.



    After performing a simple internet search as suggested, we found the following comments by Church that would seemingly preclude her from performing at the event marking the start of Trump’s presidency.

    In a December 2015 tweet, Church called Trump a “Sith death eater” and an “amoeba,” continuing to say, “I really, really detest him.”


    Later, on a 2016 episode of British talk show “The Last Leg,” she further emphasized her feelings on the president-elect.

    “I don’t hate anybody, but I hate that man,” the singer said.

    Church rose to fame as a teenager with an impressive pop and opera voice; the 30-year-old has since devoted more of her time to political activism.

    Her comments come one week after British “X Factor” finalist Rebecca Ferguson said she would only perform on Inauguration Day if she were able to sing “Strange Fruit.” With lyrics describing a lynching in the South in gruesome detail, the tune is perhaps the best-known song against racism in America.

    So far, the Radio City Rockettes, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and singer Jackie Evancho from “America’s Got Talent” are slated to perform along with military musicians and the Marist College marching band.
    Reports indicate that there’s been turmoil behind the scenes as Trump’s team struggles to secure willing participants. Against tradition, not a single local Washington, D.C. band has applied to perform. Managers of the Rockettes have stated its members are not required to show up, and one tabernacle choir member has quit in protest.
    According to “Let it Go” singer Idina Menzel, it’s all “karma, baby.”
    Make sure you click on this link and look at the actual tweet of refusal, especially the emojis!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b043ad97e59e27

    Trump is just Putin's little bitch.

  • #749
    toxic Xyxox's Avatar
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    Yes, it's a poll, and yes, it's Quinnipiac, but as a general barometer, 51% disapproval to 37% approval for an incoming presidency is pretty damned pathetic:

    https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2415
    Trump is just Putin's little bitch.

  • #750
    consequences 3catcircus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yablo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Yes, and if you used that quote is it because you agreed enough with it.

    And your obviously dumb enough to no realize that talking about someone capabilities can reference racist stereotypes. Like black people being lazy. Now I also understand your full of rage from all the propaganda your exposed too, but take a second to think how much works it takes to graduate from Harvard, become a teacher there and later become president of the US. It isn't something a lazy person will accomplish in its life. Althought it is possible that due to the propaganda you subject yourself everyday, you think it is all rigged and is easily accessable with the right connections instead of the right connections and a lot of work.
    Puhlease... We all understand that sometimes incompetent people squeak by for social reasons rather than for their merits and abilities. What did he do again to earn a Nobel? Constitutional law Prof at UChi? He was no more than a part time lecturer and was reportedly hated by the rest of the faculty because he was "Lazy, unqualified, and never attended any of the faculty meetings."

    Face it - the guy is not even qualified to be Mayor McCheese, let alone POTUS.
    Last edited by 3catcircus; January 10th, 2017 at 08:52 PM.

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