Thread: The Coming Rule of Trump

  1. #721
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhidu View Post
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    Lest we forget, President Obama was prepping his appointees for the same kind of transition even if Clinton won. This is just how things are done - and there are plenty more things to complain about with Trump than this.



    Most likely, about as many as other recent administrations (I'm not sure about the veracity of those #s, but those look in-line at first glance).
    I cannot recall the last time GreyOne got his ass kicked this badly on a topic.

    It's a pretty meaningless topic though. So he probably wasn't giving it his full effort.
    Last edited by Mistwell; January 9th, 2017 at 10:19 PM.
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  • #722
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
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    I cannot recall the last time GreyOne got his ass kicked this badly on a topic.
    Imma stop you there. While this election season and its aftermath had tons of shit tossing (including some from me), I'm really trying to tone it back down. That post wasn't meant as a smack down of any sort - it was just adding to the (sometimes contentious) conversation, trying to drag people back to the middle ground most of us inhabit in meatspace.

  • #723
    Not a pony! GreyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
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    I cannot recall the last time GreyOne got his ass kicked this badly on a topic.

    It's a pretty meaningless topic though. So he probably wasn't giving it his full effort.
    Yeah. Not seeing it. Try and read the previous statements for proper context.

    On a different ass note, I'm also not seeing much acceptance from certain CM quarters of the Intelligence sector agreeing that the Russians tried to influence the election. Instead of doubling down on the idea that there's some sort of disagreement in the intelligence sector, I guess those quarters are deciding to ignore it by staying quiet.
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  • #724
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyOne View Post
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    Yeah. Not seeing it. Try and read the previous statements for proper context.

    On a different ass note, I'm also not seeing much acceptance from certain CM quarters of the Intelligence sector agreeing that the Russians tried to influence the election. Instead of doubling down on the idea that there's some sort of disagreement in the intelligence sector, I guess those quarters are deciding to ignore it by staying quiet.
    There's bizarre pro-Russia right movement at the moment. They've infected so much online discussion and used RT to back them up in a concerted effort to control the discourse that they're succeeding in making even the staunchest anti-Commie from last generation become pro-Russia.

    Whenever I hear certain terms being used in an argument, I immediately know which news source they listen to and trust. And whenever it's pro-Trump it always leads back to the likes of Alex Jones, the Drudge Report, Breitbart, etc. who all lead back to RT and a pro-Russia stance.

    America may have won the cold war, but Russia is winning the social media war.
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  • #725
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyOne View Post
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    Yeah. Not seeing it. Try and read the previous statements for proper context.

    On a different ass note, I'm also not seeing much acceptance from certain CM quarters of the Intelligence sector agreeing that the Russians tried to influence the election. Instead of doubling down on the idea that there's some sort of disagreement in the intelligence sector, I guess those quarters are deciding to ignore it by staying quiet.
    I bet you'd get more agreement on the Russians influencing the election if you copped to the Russians influencing the election by... whistle-blowing on the antics of the DNC.

  • #726
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyOne View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Yeah. Not seeing it. Try and read the previous statements for proper context.

    On a different ass note, I'm also not seeing much acceptance from certain CM quarters of the Intelligence sector agreeing that the Russians tried to influence the election. Instead of doubling down on the idea that there's some sort of disagreement in the intelligence sector, I guess those quarters are deciding to ignore it by staying quiet.
    There was agreement on WMD in Iraq. Agreement on no wiretapping of US citizens, too. Until there's a shred of evidence, I'm going to continue to reserve judgement. Given that the leading cybercrime investigation companies out there are saying that attribution of this kind of thing is super hard, and that the evidence so far is 'it was malware written by Russians, and they've used it, too, and please ignore that you can buy this malware on the dark web" and "hey, our actual spies told us that Russia preferred Trump, and they used their controlled media to influence the campaign." That's stupid weak evidence.

    If they want support for an action against Russia (which is a dangerous thing), then they need to put more cards on the table. I got burned by Iraq, and burned again by the NSA. I'm not up to being burned by an intelligence group that's on the way out.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #727
    Maxperson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remathilis View Post
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    I'm sorry, I don't speak bitch. What are you trying to say?

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  • #728
    %0 correct Scarbonac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3catcircus View Post
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    Nope. Obama is all of those things
    How about 'NO'?


    Content of character.
    The idea that *you* think that you have the standing, wisdom, or ability to judge another's 'content of character' is ludicrous, sad, and a little sick-making.
    "1 out of 3 Trump supporters is as stupid as the other 2"

  • #729
    cowabunga! Remathilis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxperson View Post
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    Ask your mother.
    My mom stopped dealing with infants decades ago, your crying fits won't win you any points with her either.

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  • #730
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyOne View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Yeah. Not seeing it. Try and read the previous statements for proper context.

    On a different ass note, I'm also not seeing much acceptance from certain CM quarters of the Intelligence sector agreeing that the Russians tried to influence the election. Instead of doubling down on the idea that there's some sort of disagreement in the intelligence sector, I guess those quarters are deciding to ignore it by staying quiet.
    Here's the issue. The report they issued is bullshit. And pretty much every tech source that has looked at it (which most non-tech sources are lapping it up as "proof!"), regardless of prior bias, has come away saying it's bullshit. It's FULL of Tor node IP addresses, which means they're known to be IPs anyone in the world can use and not proof of any one location.

    But...and here is the key...obviously the intelligence agencies must know that. So the question becomes why did they issue a report so easily dismissed as bogus by any genuine techie who knows their shit?

    Most tech analysis (I think this one came from Wired) think it is because we're spying on Russia, and that's how we really know they did it, but we can't really say that. It would give away our methods, and in particular it's hard to say it when we're complaining about them spying on us.

    So what do you say about a Report which has an accurate conclusion (the Russians did it) but has blatantly inaccurate support for that conclusion (a bunch of Tor addresses which don't prove Russia did it)?

    Hopefully you don't do what the Washington Post did with that power company's release of an IP address - which was notice a same address from the Report had infiltrated someone on the power company's network and assume that means it was "the Russians" when in reality it was "someone somewhere on the planet using the Tor browser".

    So you want acceptance? The Russians did it. But, you want to use the Report to prove that? Yeah...no. Tor node addresses don't prove the Russians did it, even when those IP addresses supposedly track to Russian territory. Because you and I can appear to to be using that IP address to post here at CM from your home in Canada.

    The other alternative? The alternative that says our own intelligence agencies are so incompetent that they DON'T realize they are Tor node addresses? The alternative in line with the fuck up on WMD in Iraq and an asprin factory in Africa being a terrorist training camp and some of the other fuckups our intelligence agencies have had in modern times? That alternative is just to pessimistic for me. I won't buy that without proof. And it's too scary to contemplate right now. I'd much rather conclude they know damn well that report they issued is full of shit and they're doing it to placate a media that will go along with it to avoid mentioning we know because we're spying on Russia and know for sure they did it.

    And then there's the other part of the Report that few are talking about (yet). And that's the portions that talk about how Russia has been manipulating left-leaning sources on some issues, particularly on Frakking. I guess they did things like leak to the Occupy movement all this bullshit on Frakking (and some other issues) that Occupy ate-up and spread through social media.
    Last edited by Mistwell; January 10th, 2017 at 02:28 AM.
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  • #731
    Maxperson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remathilis View Post
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    My mom stopped dealing with infants decades ago, your crying fits won't win you any points with her either.
    Must suck that she hasn't talked to you in decades.

  • #732
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
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    ...Most tech analysis (I think this one came from Wired) think it is because we're spying on Russia, and that's how we really know they did it, but we can't really say that. It would give away our methods, and in particular it's hard to say it when we're complaining about them spying on us.
    My guess is that it's less "spying on the Russians" (because, well, of course we are!) and more "we don't want to confirm to the bad guys that we own most of the onion routers and can dismantle their communications pretty much any time we want."

  • #733
    toxic Xyxox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
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    And then there's the other part of the Report that few are talking about (yet). And that's the portions that talk about how Russia has been manipulating left-leaning sources on some issues, particularly on Frakking. I guess they did things like leak to the Occupy movement all this bullshit on Frakking (and some other issues) that Occupy ate-up and spread through social media.
    That's the oil money side. Russia is so dependent on their oil revenue that when OPEC opened up the spigot to drive the cost of crude so low as to compete in the US with domestic energy production from frakking that te Russian economy took a major hit.

    RT and Sputnik were the most used sources by the Bernouts during the primaries. Russia excels at injecting propaganda into foreign political dialogue.
    Trump is just Putin's little bitch.

  • #734
    Not a pony! GreyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    Here's the issue. The report they issued is bullshit. And pretty much every tech source that has looked at it (which most non-tech sources are lapping it up as "proof!"), regardless of prior bias, has come away saying it's bullshit. It's FULL of Tor node IP addresses, which means they're known to be IPs anyone in the world can use and not proof of any one location.

    But...and here is the key...obviously the intelligence agencies must know that. So the question becomes why did they issue a report so easily dismissed as bogus by any genuine techie who knows their shit?

    Most tech analysis (I think this one came from Wired) think it is because we're spying on Russia, and that's how we really know they did it, but we can't really say that. It would give away our methods, and in particular it's hard to say it when we're complaining about them spying on us.

    So what do you say about a Report which has an accurate conclusion (the Russians did it) but has blatantly inaccurate support for that conclusion (a bunch of Tor addresses which don't prove Russia did it)?

    Hopefully you don't do what the Washington Post did with that power company's release of an IP address - which was notice a same address from the Report had infiltrated someone on the power company's network and assume that means it was "the Russians" when in reality it was "someone somewhere on the planet using the Tor browser".

    So you want acceptance? The Russians did it. But, you want to use the Report to prove that? Yeah...no. Tor node addresses don't prove the Russians did it, even when those IP addresses supposedly track to Russian territory. Because you and I can appear to to be using that IP address to post here at CM from your home in Canada.

    The other alternative? The alternative that says our own intelligence agencies are so incompetent that they DON'T realize they are Tor node addresses? The alternative in line with the fuck up on WMD in Iraq and an asprin factory in Africa being a terrorist training camp and some of the other fuckups our intelligence agencies have had in modern times? That alternative is just to pessimistic for me. I won't buy that without proof. And it's too scary to contemplate right now. I'd much rather conclude they know damn well that report they issued is full of shit and they're doing it to placate a media that will go along with it to avoid mentioning we know because we're spying on Russia and know for sure they did it.

    And then there's the other part of the Report that few are talking about (yet). And that's the portions that talk about how Russia has been manipulating left-leaning sources on some issues, particularly on Frakking. I guess they did things like leak to the Occupy movement all this bullshit on Frakking (and some other issues) that Occupy ate-up and spread through social media.
    No I realize the US and it's allies is not going to give anywhere near the real specifics of how they know Russia tried to mess with their election. The fact is they publicly agree they did.
    GreyOne - "At what point do enough innocent bodies stack up where you decide your Second Amendment isn't worth the paper required to wipe a medium-sized bowel movement?"

    Ovinomancer - "As for your questions, more."

  • #735
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyOne View Post
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    No I realize the US and it's allies is not going to give anywhere near the real specifics of how they know Russia tried to mess with their election. The fact is they publicly agree they did.
    Right.

    And then there's the fact that Colin Powell sat there and said 17 different intelligence agencies all agreed [about Iraq WMD]. The exact phrase President Obama's spokesperson just used about the Russian hack...that all 17 Intelligence agencies agreed [it was a Russian hack].

    And before that, the fact that Bill Clinton's spokesperson sat there and said multiple U.S. intelligence agencies all agreed the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Sudan was secretly making or storing the nerve agent VX [though they were not].

    Salon had a very long look at the history of U.S. Intelligence Failures. I am sure right now they're all on board the "The Russians Did it" claim. But...despite thinking they did in fact do it, I can't help but have that small voice in the back of my mind reminding me we've heard this "our intelligence agencies all agree..." claim before, and sometimes it proved to be "...and they were all wrong."

    That, and I can't help but think if it were Elizabeth Warren or Noam Chomsky (or someone else left of center) calling into question the conclusion of U.S. Intelligence concerning a matter which increases tensions with potential U.S. enemies instead of Trump, people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the idea....even if they had no more additional information to go on (or even less information) than Trump does right now.
    Last edited by Mistwell; January 10th, 2017 at 05:48 AM.
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