Thread: The Coming Rule of Trump

  1. #616
    hand-tossed! Sobek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yablo View Post
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    Called it.
    Actually, I think he was in agreement with the consensus that the vote was a bad idea -- at least, that's the way I read it. Of course, I also agree that the vote was a bad idea.
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    hand-tossed! Sobek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Silverbane View Post
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    I wonder if there might be some other branch of government that is better suited to judge the ethics of our elected officials, rather than having the office that investigates the legislative work for the legislative. It juris doesn't seem very prudence.
    We could always set up a Secretary of Inquisitions under the executive branch. For irony, we'd have to move the Secret Service under their auspice because "no one expects the [Department of] Inquisition!"
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    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobek View Post
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    Actually, I think he was in agreement with the consensus that the vote was a bad idea -- at least, that's the way I read it. Of course, I also agree that the vote was a bad idea.
    Yep, this. I see it was a bit murky in my post. To be clear:

    I think the vote to eliminate the independent ethics office is a step backwards.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

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    Come on Misty, don't let me down.
    I am not Gary Busey.

  • #620
    Fascinating COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Mustrum_Ridcully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
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    Yep, this. I see it was a bit murky in my post. To be clear:

    I think the vote to eliminate the independent ethics office is a step backwards.
    I really wonder how thinks like the Freedom of Information Act could have happened if we have things like this happening? Is it always a few steps forward and then a few steps backward? Or are we now in reverse and regress to more autocratic, intransparent and corrupt forms of government for some reason? Is it a pendulum, or is there actually still a net positive trajectory overall?

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    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully View Post
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    Or are we now in reverse and regress to more autocratic, intransparent and corrupt forms of government for some reason?
    Create instability in oil-rich regions, invoke war-for-profit, roll in and take over resources, create backlash and terrorist insurgency groups, use as justification for authoritarian measures, profit, profit, profit, profit, profit.

    There's a reason why the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten stupider.
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    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully View Post
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    I really wonder how thinks like the Freedom of Information Act could have happened if we have things like this happening? Is it always a few steps forward and then a few steps backward? Or are we now in reverse and regress to more autocratic, intransparent and corrupt forms of government for some reason? Is it a pendulum, or is there actually still a net positive trajectory overall?
    To be fair, the Ethics board hasn't performed well at all. However, the solution there isn't to end independent oversight, it's to remove the things that remain that make it a political tool.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

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    First Day On The Internet Calamari Face's Avatar
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    "Israel forgets Pakistan is a Nuclear (sic) state too."

    Seriously? Ha'aretz pisses on the Pakistani Defense Minister for a capitalization fuckup but never once "[sic]"ced George Dubya Fucking Bush's "nucular"?



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  • #624
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    And, after a Tweet from Trump telling the House there are more important things to be focusing on that the Ethics committee issue, the House dropped the issue and will not go forward with the proposal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
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    And, after a Tweet from Trump telling the House there are more important things to be focusing on that the Ethics committee issue, the House dropped the issue and will not go forward with the proposal.
    And Misty falls for it hook, line and sinker.

    https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.ny...ffice.amp.html

    Quote Originally Posted by NY Times
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    But such resolve crumbled Tuesday morning, as thousands of phone calls flooded lawmakers’ offices and both conservative and liberal ethics groups issued statements condemning the vote. Some Republicans joined in, saying the measure sent the wrong message to the public. (Internet searches for the words “Who is my representative” surged after news of the plan broke Monday night and peaked Tuesday morning,according to Google.)
    Yeah, Trump tweeted against it, but look what he said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trump
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    With all that Congress has to work on, do they really have to make the weakening of the Independent Ethics Watchdog, as unfair as it //........may be, their number one act and priority. Focus on tax reform, healthcare and so many other things of far greater importance!#DTS
    Bold emphasis added. His concern wasn't that they gutted the committee, it's that they did that as the very first thing.

    Don't give Trump this win, give it to the thousands (Is, Ds and Rs) who called thier Congress critters.

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    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remathilis View Post
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    And Misty falls for it hook, line and sinker.

    https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.ny...ffice.amp.html



    Yeah, Trump tweeted against it, but look what he said.



    Bold emphasis added. His concern wasn't that they gutted the committee, it's that they did that as the very first thing.

    Don't give Trump this win, give it to the thousands (Is, Ds and Rs) who called thier Congress critters.

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    Read as: Trump just CAN'T be on the right side of this.

    Man's an ass, but he still gets some things right.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #627
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remathilis View Post
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    And Misty falls for it hook, line and sinker. ...

    Bold emphasis added. His concern wasn't that they gutted the committee, it's that they did that as the very first thing.
    Gosh Rem, it's almost as if you think you read something from me different from what I said. How is that meaningfully different from, "after a Tweet from Trump telling the House there are more important things to be focusing on that the Ethics committee issue?"

    Don't give Trump this win, give it to the thousands (Is, Ds and Rs) who called thier Congress critters.

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    I didn't "give him a win" however a lot of papers are reporting it was related to the Tweet in some way. For example, from WaPo (a paper that loathes Trump):

    Quote Originally Posted by WaPo
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    Congressional experts say Trump's tweet undeniably had some effect on Republicans' decision to suddenly drop the ethics changes. Draining an independent ethics office of power is not on-brand with Trump's "drain the swamp" message, a populist platform that proved terribly efficient at vaulting him and Republicans into power in 2017.

    In that sense, Trump's words matter. Ryan credited Trump with helping Republicans sweep Wisconsin at the federal level in November, and he and other Republican leaders know all too well how quickly Trump can turn on them.

    To that point, Rep. Charlie Dent (R-Pa.), a recent chairman of the ethics committee embroiled in all this, told reporters that House GOP leadership said Trump's opposition "should be a consideration" in whether to pull the rule. In a closed-door meeting Tuesday morning, Republicans nearly unanimously decided to pull it.
    And from a different WaPo article, by The Washington Post’s senior congressional correspondent and columnist:

    "The immediate outcome was to keep intact the independent Office of Congressional Ethics — exactly the status quo that House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) and his leadership team had hoped to protect. That result, however, appeared largely to be the result of Trump’s intervention rather than Ryan’s maneuvering."



    I think the Tweet had something to do with it. It's not really a "win" but I think he did the right thing. And I think it's laughable that people seem incapable of not bashing him even when he does the right thing.

    I mean, if you can't even hold off on the bashes when he does something you agree with, why would anybody give a shit what you think after a while. A fucking computer program (and not even a good one) could do your job in the Senate if it's just gonna be "Trump's an ass" regardless of what he does. Can you just not help yourself anymore?
    Last edited by Mistwell; January 4th, 2017 at 03:59 AM.
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    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
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    Gosh Rem, it's almost as if you think you read something from me different from what I said. How is that meaningfully different from, "after a Tweet from Trump telling the House there are more important things to be focusing on that the Ethics committee issue?"



    I didn't "give him a win" however MOST papers are reporting it was related to the Tweet, and you're purely guessing that it was emails rather than the Tweet. I think the Tweet had something to do with it. It's not really a "win" but I think he did the right thing. And I think it's laughable that people seem incapable of not bashing him even when he does the right thing.
    I think it was ckearly the loud outcry from both sides that tipped this, and that Trump just happened to be on the right side here. As much as I agree with slapping down Remmy's bullshit, I think it's as important to not fall for the narrative that Trump has that much influence when using his Twitter account.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #629
    Not a pony! GreyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
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    Read as: Trump just CAN'T be on the right side of this.

    Man's an ass, but he still gets some things right.
    GreyOne - "At what point do enough innocent bodies stack up where you decide your Second Amendment isn't worth the paper required to wipe a medium-sized bowel movement?"

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  • #630
    Not a pony! GreyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
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    A fucking computer program (and not even a good one) could do your job in the Senate if it's just gonna be "Trump's an ass" regardless of what he does. Can you just not help yourself anymore?
    Automation is stealing jobs!

    Also, on the ethics brouhaha, another take:

    How Trump Had It Both Ways on Congressional Ethics

    I liked this bit:
    Moving to pass the ethics rules now was a page torn right out of the Trump playbook: The theory is that you can get away with doing things that are egregious violations of norms, and even ones that might be politically toxic if handled through the typical political process, if they are instead dealt with brusquely, casually, and secretively. By the time the gutting of OCE was known, it was already passed and incorporated into the rules package, and the opponent best positioned to stop it, Paul Ryan, had already been steamrolled. But they play turned out not to work as well for the House as it has for the president-elect. It will be much harder to pass later, after having been pulled for public outcry. The abrupt demise of the amendment suggests two lessons for Republicans in Congress: Guessing Trump’s mind is impossible, and the tactics that work for him are liable to blow up in anyone else’s face.
    Last edited by GreyOne; January 4th, 2017 at 05:52 AM.
    GreyOne - "At what point do enough innocent bodies stack up where you decide your Second Amendment isn't worth the paper required to wipe a medium-sized bowel movement?"

    Ovinomancer - "As for your questions, more."

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