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Thread: Social Justice Shenanigans

  1. #1636
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nail bunny View Post
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    I get smacking Para for her Face-Heel Turn, but what about Ulric's Heel–Face Revolving Door up there?
    You fight the battles you think you can win.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

 

  • #1637
    a figment of your imagination COMMUNITY SUPPORTER Palaralae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nail bunny View Post
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    "One or more villains made a convincing argument (and may actually be right)."


    I'mma go with this option.

    So we sleep all day
    And we rise at night
    And we spread our wings and take into the skies.
    We do it all our way
    Live our lives like that
    'Cause there’s no one here to fill our heads with lies

    And when the people all stop and stare
    And say, “Why you gotta be like that?”
    When the people all stop and stare
    And say, “Why you gotta dress like that?”
    When the people all stop and stare
    And say, “Why you gotta be like that?”
    I just punch 'em in the eye
    And I bite 'em on the thigh
    And I kick 'em in their ass where the sun don’t shine
    I look 'em in the eye and tell 'em
    I was raised by bats!

  • #1638
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagpuss View Post
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    No The Doctor has changed sex, it's not the same thing.
    While there are other aspects encompassed within the Trans pantheon of concepts, changing from being a male into being a female is absolutely one of the concepts covered by being Trans.
    I like hats.

  • #1639
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
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    While there are other aspects encompassed within the Trans pantheon of concepts, changing from being a male into being a female is absolutely one of the concepts covered by being Trans.
    I think you will find that most trans people disagree with you here - it's not a "change" so much as a "correction" under the paradigm - the brain and the body are not in synch, and so the body is changed to fit the brain.

    the Doctor might be "trans," but more along the lines of "transhumanist" than "transgender."

  • #1640
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhidu View Post
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    I think you will find that most trans people disagree with you here - it's not a "change" so much as a "correction" under the paradigm - the brain and the body are not in synch, and so the body is changed to fit the brain.
    I don't think most "disagree" but rather they find their thinking differs on the intent, which is different than disagreeing. There are plenty of Trans people who identify with both genders, sometimes at different times in their lives, and they're welcomed as Trans by the Trans community. So just because he doesn't match the thinking behind most Trans people, that does not make him not-Trans or in disagreement with Trans people. Men who become women but not simply as a "correction" are included within the various aspects of being Trans. They might not be the "norm" of that rather small group, but differing from that norm is not exclusion from the group.
    I like hats.

  • #1641
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
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    I don't think most "disagree" but rather they find their thinking differs on the intent, which is different than disagreeing. There are plenty of Trans people who identify with both genders, sometimes at different times in their lives, and they're welcomed as Trans by the Trans community. So just because he doesn't match the thinking behind most Trans people, that does not make him not-Trans or in disagreement with Trans people. Men who become women but not simply as a "correction" are included within the various aspects of being Trans. They might not be the "norm" of that rather small group, but differing from that norm is not exclusion from the group.
    You sure about that last? Seems that subset identity is becoming very exclusionary.
    Quote Originally Posted by PWD View Post
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    I think ovi's right.

  • #1642
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
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    You sure about that last? Seems that subset identity is becoming very exclusionary.
    Agreed, there is constant infighting in any subgroup, and sometimes the smaller the subgroup the more the infighting. So I guess you could say they would be no less welcomed than anyone else, since they will see infighting directed at them like it's directed at pretty much all other members. But yeah, if a man becomes a woman, and says they became a woman not because of a correction (but accepts that many people do it for that reason) but because they feel like they're both genders and wanted to be the female gender right now, I feel confident they will see no "more" push-back from the Trans community than any other member experiences. But if they're the kind of person who likes to talk about their reasons, they will get push-back from someone who has different reasons - no matter what their reasons are.

    Of course most Trans people, at least those I've encountered (which admittedly is only three, in terms of knowing them fairly well), tend to talk about their reasons near the beginning. Once their transition is complete and they're fully comfortable, the ones I know tend to slowly stop talking about their reasons for doing it to begin with anyway. They are the gender they look like now, and so the goal isn't to talk about the gender they used to look like, it's just to be the gender they are and (for those I have known) start a family and live a relatively "normal" life. And at that point, the Doctor would be as Trans as any other Trans person who has gone well beyond the transition phase and is just living their life as their gender and only mentioning it if it happens to come up naturally in life.

    Well...except for the starting a family and living a relatively "normal" life. There is nothing "normal" about the Doctor.
    I like hats.

  • #1643
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palaralae View Post
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    Unlikely.


    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhidu View Post
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    I think you will find that most trans people disagree with you here - it's not a "change" so much as a "correction" under the paradigm - the brain and the body are not in synch, and so the body is changed to fit the brain.

    the Doctor might be "trans," but more along the lines of "transhumanist" than "transgender."
    Yup.
    Hop on in, this rabbit hole is deep.

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