View Poll Results: Umbran vs. Kzach

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  • I would choose Kzach, 'cause he's really just a cuddly-wuddly on the inside.

    14 36.84%
  • I would choose Umbran. He is just. Righteous. And a force of good for all people-kind.

    10 26.32%
  • This poll makes my brain hurt.

    14 36.84%
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Thread: If you could choose between Umbran and I.

  1. #31
    Choose between Umbran and Kzach? Isn't that why they put TWO barrels on a shotgun?
    "Celebrating the times when the penis is an internal organ." --from Oglaf.com

 

  • #32
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat of Ulthar View Post
    ... an own goal! "whoever" is the subject of the relative clause, therefore "whoever" is correct, not "whomever".
    Actually, the subject of the relative clause can be either whoever or whomever, so whoever is not automatically correct. Since, in this case, the relative clause is substituting as the object of the sentence, I believe that whom is the more correct option.

  • #33
    like therapy, but cheaper! Cat of Ulthar's Avatar
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    No, the subject is always who, never whom; whom is used in the case of objects and after prepositions. The confusion here arises because who(m) is preceded by for, but the case of the relative pronoun is determined by its function in the relative clause, not in the main clause: "The man whom I met is a mutant" (subject in the main clause, object in the relative) "I know who wants to kill you" (object in the main clause, subject in the relative).
    Last edited by Cat of Ulthar; October 26th, 2014 at 05:13 AM.
    Did you know that sharks will only attack you if you are wet?

  • #34
    Haulin ass shiningbrow's Avatar
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    They say the devil you know is better than the one you don't. But who knows? And, more importantly, who cares?
    "When the subway jerks, it's the fixed stars that throw you down."

  • #35
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Let's face it kzach, I'm more suitable as a mod than you.

    Which isn't an endorsement. I hate responsibility.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #36
    56% of an excuse nail bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    Let's face it kzach, I'm more suitable as a mod than you.
    Agh. Can I change my vote to the Final Option?
    I wouldn't even smirk at you.

  • #37
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat of Ulthar View Post
    No, the subject is always who, never whom; whom is used in the case of objects and after prepositions. The confusion here arises because who(m) is preceded by for, but the case of the relative pronoun is determined by its function in the relative clause, not in the main clause: "The man whom I met is a mutant" (predicate in the main clause, object in the relative) "I know who wants to kill you" (object in the main clause, subject in the relative).
    Take it up with the internets, cause every page I can find on relative clauses says 'whom' is a valid subject.

  • #38
    like therapy, but cheaper! Cat of Ulthar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
    Take it up with the internets, cause every page I can find on relative clauses says 'whom' is a valid subject.
    This seems really odd, and I can't find the pages you are looking at. Could you give some links?
    Did you know that sharks will only attack you if you are wet?

  • #39
    I think he is confusing the ability for 'whomever' to be the subject...but still the object.

    For the example listed, it is easier to think of how you would apply the objective or subjective pronoun to the situation to determine the proper word. That works most of the time. The subjective pronoun would produce a 'whoever' while the objective pronoun would produce a 'whomever.' This isn't 100% accurate; but, certainly works in this case.

  • #40
    like therapy, but cheaper! Cat of Ulthar's Avatar
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    Ah, I see what you mean, if the relative clause is the subject, but whomever is the object of the relative clause. Like "Whomever the zombies killed had it coming".

    Indeed that is the reverse of the issue in my sentence, where the relative clause is the object but whoever is the subject. The way to determine whether it's who or whom is to extract the relative clause and see if you would use "he" or "him" (or "she" or "her", "they" or "them"). In this case, it would be "he uses correct grammar", so "who".

    - doesn't know Umbran or Kzach but still likes to threadcrap Spikey
    Did you know that sharks will only attack you if you are wet?

  • #41
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    Let's face it kzach, I'm more suitable as a mod than you.
    I hate people who don't read the OP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Wickett View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member.
    I'm mostly with Spoony.

  • #42
    I want watermelon! Bagpuss's Avatar
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    You can always put regular posters on ignore. Not that I ever would.
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    Damn you and your perfectly valid criticism!

  • #43
    %0 correct Scarbonac's Avatar
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    I don't get the Umbran-hate; maybe I never interacted with him (or whatever) enough, but I have no idea what everyone's on about.
    "1 out of 3 Trump supporters is as stupid as the other 2"

  • #44
    self admitted prolifer kirinke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kzach View Post
    I hate people who don't read the OP.
    I did. As a regular poster, there are far worse than you.
    Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

    I is before E except after C, then it's chaos man, mass chaos! Letters coming together into words, but then you go English and they put U's in places that just shouldn't go there... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    My sanity left town along time ago and didn't leave a forwarding address. It's not missed.

  • #45
    Pony Up! Ovinomancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat of Ulthar View Post
    This seems really odd, and I can't find the pages you are looking at. Could you give some links?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Gazebo View Post
    I think he is confusing the ability for 'whomever' to be the subject...but still the object.

    For the example listed, it is easier to think of how you would apply the objective or subjective pronoun to the situation to determine the proper word. That works most of the time. The subjective pronoun would produce a 'whoever' while the objective pronoun would produce a 'whomever.' This isn't 100% accurate; but, certainly works in this case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat of Ulthar View Post
    Ah, I see what you mean, if the relative clause is the subject, but whomever is the object of the relative clause. Like "Whomever the zombies killed had it coming".

    Indeed that is the reverse of the issue in my sentence, where the relative clause is the object but whoever is the subject. The way to determine whether it's who or whom is to extract the relative clause and see if you would use "he" or "him" (or "she" or "her", "they" or "them"). In this case, it would be "he uses correct grammar", so "who".

    - doesn't know Umbran or Kzach but still likes to threadcrap Spikey
    It appears we're both wrong. Me because it is whoever, you because 'whoever has mastered basic English grammar' isn't a relative clause*, it's just a noun clause. Some days I hate the mother tongue.

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