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Thread: IRS Apologizes for Targeting Conservative Groups

  1. #16
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Brockaw on Morning Joe, outraged by this scandal, bothered that Obama hasn't had a statement on this by now:

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  • #17
    toxic Xyxox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    Brockaw on Morning Joe, outraged by this scandal, bothered that Obama hasn't had a statement on this by now:

    Uh, dude. Obama made a statement this morning. Brokejaw can take a flying leap.
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  • #18
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyxox View Post
    Uh, dude. Obama made a statement this morning. Brokejaw can take a flying leap.
    Two things:

    1). Morning Joe aired before the Pres made his statement, so it's not like Brokaw is working with that statement in hand.
    2). The POTUS's comments were exactly in line with what they should have been, though they stopped short of what I would have liked to see (which is a "I will be asking for resignations").

  • #19
    diaglo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhidu View Post
    Two things:

    1). Morning Joe aired before the Pres made his statement, so it's not like Brokaw is working with that statement in hand.
    2). The POTUS's comments were exactly in line with what they should have been, though they stopped short of what I would have liked to see (which is a "I will be firing dickheads").
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  • #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhidu View Post
    Two things:

    1). Morning Joe aired before the Pres made his statement, so it's not like Brokaw is working with that statement in hand.
    2). The POTUS's comments were exactly in line with what they should have been, though they stopped short of what I would have liked to see (which is a "I will be asking for resignations").
    Quote Originally Posted by diaglo View Post
    "I i will be firing dickheads").

    fifdiaglo

  • #21
    toxic Xyxox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhidu View Post
    Two things:

    1). Morning Joe aired before the Pres made his statement, so it's not like Brokaw is working with that statement in hand.
    2). The POTUS's comments were exactly in line with what they should have been, though they stopped short of what I would have liked to see (which is a "I will be asking for resignations").
    One thing. This president never has been and never will be reactionary. He carefully considers and investigates the issues and then makes a decision, which is why there was no kneejerk statement made before he got the facts. I'd bet he had people working through the weekend to determine how far up the food chain this went before making any statement because he wanted to be damned sure nobody high ranking was involved. Then he made the statement.

    Firings of lower level IRS employees is a human resources matter and thus not a matter for public discourse by the POTUS. The same is true for all civil servants. Had a political appointee been involved, the matter would be different and the POTUS would be justified in announcing the resignation of said appointee.

    Similar shit happens in large corporations. Chief officers who work at the behest of the Board of Directors who engage in such behavior will have very public announcements of their resignations. Low level employees who are fired for such behavior will never have those very public announcements other than using very generic human resources terminology after the fact (e.g. "8 employees were disciplined through proper human resource channels" which usually means they were sacked).

    Anything beyond simple HR actions would also be criminal investigations and the POTUS is not going to get specific about this sort of thing involving low level civil servants until possibly after an arrest is made.
    Last edited by Xyxox; May 13th, 2013 at 08:21 PM.
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  • #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyxox View Post
    Similar shit happens in large corporations.
    Don't be ridiculous. Nothing bad can ever happen under the watch of capitalists intent on making money. /Republican
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  • #23
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyxox View Post
    One thing. This president never has been and never will be reactionary. He carefully considers and investigates the issues and then makes a decision, which is why there was no kneejerk statement made before he got the facts. I'd bet he had people working through the weekend to determine how far up the food chain this went before making any statement because he wanted to be damned sure nobody high ranking was involved. Then he made the statement.

    Firings of lower level IRS employees is a human resources matter and thus not a matter for public discourse by the POTUS. The same is true for all civil servants. Had a political appointee been involved, the matter would be different and the POTUS would be justified in announcing the resignation of said appointee.

    Similar shit happens in large corporations. Chief officers who work at the behest of the Board of Directors who engage in such behavior will have very public announcements of their resignations. Low level employees who are fired for such behavior will never have those very public announcements other than using very generic human resources terminology after the fact (e.g. "8 employees were disciplined through proper human resource channels" which usually means they were sacked).

    Anything beyond simple HR actions would also be criminal investigations and the POTUS is not going to get specific about this sort of thing involving low level civil servants until possibly after an arrest is made.
    You'll note that I said "exactly in line with what they should have been." While the Prez isn't reactionary, I certainly am, which is why it didn't go far enough for me.

    So far, he's taken a correct path - can't fault him for any actions he's taken (with the info we currently have).

  • #24
    Friendly Coffee Kzach's Avatar
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    Given my level of naivety and low intelligence it should come as no surprise that I'm missing something here.

    What's the big deal?

    A bunch of whiny mouth-breathers had the IRS take a bit of a closer look at them than normal because so many of them were applying for a dodgy tax exempt status and people are calling bloody murder and demanding there be firings... and hangin's if they could.

    None of them were ultimately negatively affected. They all got their whiny status given to them, just with a few more bureaucratic hoops to jump through than normal. So what?
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  • #25
    toxic Xyxox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kzach View Post
    Given my level of naivety and low intelligence it should come as no surprise that I'm missing something here.

    What's the big deal?

    A bunch of whiny mouth-breathers had the IRS take a bit of a closer look at them than normal because so many of them were applying for a dodgy tax exempt status and people are calling bloody murder and demanding there be firings... and hangin's if they could.

    None of them were ultimately negatively affected. They all got their whiny status given to them, just with a few more bureaucratic hoops to jump through than normal. So what?
    The problem is a governmental agency utilized politically based profiling in their investigations, also asking questions which were not allowed under the rules of the IRS and possibly under the law.

    Scrutiny of these organizations must be above board, unbiased, and must follow the script in place for such investigations. By hampering the process for these groups, the IRS unfairly hindered the process and caused undue additional costs for the organizations in question. Asking questions that are not allowed to be asked forced these organizations to work on getting answers to those questions they were not prepared to answer.
    Trump is just Putin's little bitch.

  • #26
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kzach View Post
    Given my level of naivety and low intelligence it should come as no surprise that I'm missing something here.

    What's the big deal?

    A bunch of whiny mouth-breathers had the IRS take a bit of a closer look at them than normal because so many of them were applying for a dodgy tax exempt status and people are calling bloody murder and demanding there be firings... and hangin's if they could.

    None of them were ultimately negatively affected. They all got their whiny status given to them, just with a few more bureaucratic hoops to jump through than normal. So what?
    Replace conservative groups with black or gay groups and look at it again. It should be pretty obvious.

  • #27
    %0 correct Scarbonac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhidu View Post
    Replace conservative groups with black or gay groups and look at it again. It should be pretty obvious.
    So...so be...being "conservative" is an accident of birth?

  • #28
    Religipster Enkhidu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarbonac View Post
    So...so be...being "conservative" is an accident of birth?
    Actually, according to some of the studies I've seen referenced (on this board no less), yes.

  • #29
    %0 correct Scarbonac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhidu View Post
    Actually, according to some of the studies I've seen referenced (on this board no less), yes.
    So, you're ultimately saying that conservative are deserving of special protected status when applying for government benefits, then?

  • #30
    That's Wacist! Mistwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarbonac View Post
    So...so be...being "conservative" is an accident of birth?
    Yes?
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